Shenmue 4 has to change if there's to be a Shenmue 5

[9dragons]

In Japanese the acting and so so bad. It is just cringy in English. Trying to translate everything word by word into English does not work well.

And I also do not think that Shenmue should try to copy modern day AAA games with the presentation. Shenmue should keep it's uniqueness.

Besides that we have to be realistic. Where should the money come from to get professional motion capturing artists and animators that make everything realistic. We are talking about Ys-Net and not naughty Dog or Rockstar games.

 

[murdiaries]

They just need to:

1) get a good writer
2) allocate evenly resources on zones ( reduce activities / collectibles / pawnshop - gambling mechanics )
3) Improve battle system / training

And it'll be an awesome game even with the same budget as SM3!

 

[xatruio]

Reduce the side activities? The necessary evil of AA kickstarter budget cuts was getting the entire engine of most all the previous mechanics, plus a few nice new minigames, done with a lighter story so the rest of the saga can focus on story and have all the activities done and ready.

I feel like those who say there should be less side activities are the same who'd complain if there really wasn't much to do except some more story (which in total, probably made the whole game shorter than we got); or, if the full game was only Bailu, they'd complain about there not being a bigger urban setting (and again, probably a shorter overall game).

Some simply caught the hype of the E3 announcement but were never willing to accept a non-Dreamcast version--ever. Just my opinion.

 

[murdiaries]

Reduce the side activities? The necessary evil of AA kickstarter budget cuts was getting the entire engine of most all the previous mechanics, plus a few nice new minigames, done with a lighter story so the rest of the saga can focus on story and have all the activities done and ready.

I feel like those who say there should be less side activities are the same who'd complain if there really wasn't much to do except some more story (which in total, probably made the whole game shorter than we got); or, if the full game was only Bailu, they'd complain about there not being a bigger urban setting (and again, probably a shorter overall game).

Some simply caught the hype of the E3 announcement but were never willing to accept a non-Dreamcast version--ever. Just my opinion.

If SM3 removed:

-herbs collecting
-gazillion of gatchas
-pawnshops
-chobu fighter, basket game, whack-a-mole
-pointless cutscenes (chai included)
-story dlc

And put that budget on improving:

-fight system/qte
-compelling writing
-cliffhanger end scene

It would had been a much better game imho, that's all I am saying.

For SM4 I don't expect AAA, just a polished and well written experience with whatever budget they can secure.

 

[Tortu-genial]

If SM3 removed:

-herbs collecting
-gazillion of gatchas
-pawnshops
-chobu fighter, basket game, whack-a-mole
-pointless cutscenes (chai included)
-story dlc

And put that budget on improving:

-fight system/qte
-compelling writing
-cliffhanger end scene

It would had been a much better game imho, that's all I am saying.

For SM4 I don't expect AAA, just a polished and well written experience with whatever budget they can secure.

I am not agree
I love Herbs collecting, pawnshops, basket games ect :)

 

[Sonoshee]

If SM3 removed:

-herbs collecting
-gazillion of gatchas
-pawnshops
-chobu fighter, basket game, whack-a-mole
-pointless cutscenes (chai included)
-story dlc

And put that budget on improving:

-fight system/qte
-compelling writing
-cliffhanger end scene

It would had been a much better game imho, that's all I am saying.

For SM4 I don't expect AAA, just a polished and well written experience with whatever budget they can secure.

But then it opens the doors for other people to complain that those things like pawnshops, mini games, collectibles etc were all missing and that Shenmue lost some of its "essence" in the process.

No matter what YSNet did they were going to be in the wrong.
It honestly feels like Yu and his team tried to cover all bases of a Shenmue game and yes it did come up short in some areas. That's what happens when a budget is being stretched thin.

 

[Down by Law]

All this talk makes me wonder what Shenmue III would have actually been like if it had just scraped the 2 million budget.

When it was initially announced I was thinking that I would be happy with a kind of isometric top down RPG that is text and story heavy but with 3D fighting and QTE sections.

I'd still take something like that if it had to be that way, though of course I would prefer that they just improve Shenmue III as much as they can.

 

[Sonoshee]

All this talk makes me wonder what Shenmue III would have actually been like if it had just scraped the 2 million budget.

Extremely barebones, I think it would have been an interactive story from what I understood.
No matter how much people hate or are disappointed with the S3 we got, it's still a lot more than what we could have ended up with. Heck, it's still a miracle we even got S3 at all after all these years.

 

[Down by Law]

Agreed. I hate that it's looked at as a failed mainstream product but in reality it is by far the most ambitious and technically accomplished game to come from crowdfunding to date. No , Star Citizen doesn't count.

 

[~ ひかり ~]

About Shenmue III Yu Suzuki and the team had to create everything from scratch, what they achieved was really beautiful and amazing, i'm not saying the game is perfect but in my opinion the game have qualities. Now they can use some of this things in Shenmue IV and save budget for other things, and they can improve what they already have.

I love the Shenmue experience, i love even the cheesy dialogues with NPCs that some people don't like, i play more in japanese.





I think Shenmue IV will be intense and maybe we will see even some scenes of the project berkley, i have a feeling that this scene in the images will be in Shenmue IV. Shenmue IV have the pontential to be intense with a lot of action, fights, revelations and much more, i really think it would be nice to experience all of this without the Shenmue essence changing drastically, but let's see what Yu Suzuki will do, all i know is that i will support Yu Suzuki.

 

[9dragons]

Would be cool indeed if we could see some elements of project berkley. I would especially be pleased if we could see the mysterious powers of Shenhua seen in the trailer. The powers might have been teased in Shenmue 3 maybe. We do not know what Shenhua did at the beginning of the game to interrogate the thug. Maybe she used her powers maybe she did something else.. We will never know. But seeing the powers would be cool for sure.

 

[darksniper]

I think the overall disappointment with Shenmue III has to do with the expectations that us as a fanbase had. For most people, the lack of story progression is what stands out the most(myself included). Shenmue IV I believe is the true sequel to Shenmue II that most of us were expecting.

The hype that I had for Shenmue III has transferred over to part IV once I realized we weren't going too far with the plot in 3. There was enough of Shenmue's soul in the third game to keep me invested.

 

[Radar]

Back on topic.

I've seen a lot of reviews and comments that, as much as I don't like it, would compare Shenmue to Yakuza, and judging by them I would assume that it is what modern standards means to them. And it usually goes like this:

Yakuza is like Shenmue but better, Yakuza is Shenmue done right, Yakuza is like evolution of Shenmue and etc...

I do understand what they mean in a sense, and it pretty much reflects in what op @Alex bana wrote.

It is interesting how Yakuza and Shenmue are got in the same category where they can be comparable though.

More so, it comes down to - Shenmue is bad because it doesn't have things that Yakuza have or doesn't do them in the same way.

But why doesn't it work the other way around? You know, It's not like any of them who plays Yakuza would be asking:

Why can't I talk to every NPC?
Why isn't every character voiced over, and sometimes it's just text only?
Why can't you enter almost every shop?
And many many more..
Shenmue could do all that in the early 2000s why Yakuza can't?

It all may sound ridiculous, but that how I really see it. Focusing on what Yakuza have that Shenmue doesn't, and not on
what Shenmue have that Yakuza doesn't.

And that is what I think people who says that "Yakuza is better Shenmue" are doing.

And with that mindset, does it even matter..

 

[9dragons]

Some gamers like to think in simple patterns that why the whole Shenmue Yakuza comparsion comes from. These games are like day and night. The only have in common that they take place in Japan and are from Sega. That's it.

Yakuza is a funny and silly action game while Shenmue is a classic old school adventure in the style of the 90s with exploring and fighting elements.

But gamers have been always plagued with that weird and narrow minded mindset. Back in the 90s every First Person Shooter was a Doom clone. Although some of these Doom clones were more advanced gameplay wise than Doom.

I am not a fan of these narrow minded comparisons that can be debunked easily if people just start thinking on their own.

Some people do not understand Shenmue that is the main problem with the series. And I cannot blame the gamers for that really. It does not fit into any mold so some gamers have heard time understanding it, because they need these molds to categorize the games they are playing.

And calling Yakuza modern is the most weird thing I have ever heard. In many ways it much more outdated than Shenmue. The controlls are clunky, it is a pain in the behind the find some spots that there displayed on the map. Navigating with Saejima in Yakuza 4 while hiding from the police was a nightmare. You have to be in the perfect position to click some spots to interact with them.

I have nothing against Yakuza, the games are fun, but calling these games modern, is quite hilarious. They are more outdated then Shenmue was back in 2000.

 

[Radar]

Yes, that what I think, and with that mindset you can pretty much throw everything what Yu Suzuki and team conceived out the window.

Also, just to clarify. I don't remember anyone saying exactly that Yakuza is modern, it's more of my best guess-explanation of what all these standards mean based on reviews I read. It might be it or it might be not. Just trying to connect the dots.

 

[darksniper]

Some gamers like to think in simple patterns that why the whole Shenmue Yakuza comparsion comes from. These games are like day and night. The only have in common that they take place in Japan and are from Sega. That's it.

Yakuza is a funny and silly action game while Shenmue is a classic old school adventure in the style of the 90s with exploring and fighting elements.

But gamers have been always plagued with that weird and narrow minded mindset. Back in the 90s every First Person Shooter was a Doom clone. Although some of these Doom clones were more advanced gameplay wise than Doom.

I am not a fan of these narrow minded comparisons that can be debunked easily if people just start thinking on their own.

Some people do not understand Shenmue that is the main problem with the series. And I cannot blame the gamers for that really. It does not fit into any mold so some gamers have heard time understanding it, because they need these molds to categorize the games they are playing.

And calling Yakuza modern is the most weird thing I have ever heard. In many ways it much more outdated than Shenmue. The controlls are clunky, it is a pain in the behind the find some spots that there displayed on the map. Navigating with Saejima in Yakuza 4 while hiding from the police was a nightmare. You have to be in the perfect position to click some spots to interact with them.

I have nothing against Yakuza, the games are fun, but calling these games modern, is quite hilarious. They are more outdated then Shenmue was back in 2000.

Not to mention that Shenmue 1 and 2 on DC looks leaps and bounds better than Yakuza 1 and 2 on PS2. Which is crazy when you think about it.

To me the comparisons of Shenmue and Yakuza start at the character models. When I first saw screenshots of Yakuza 1 on PS2 back in the day, I immediately thought it was Shenmue. To this day, whenever I play a Yakuza title, I'm always reminded how much I appreciate their character models having that distinct "Sega" look to them.

I've always felt that if Sega was behind Shenmue III like they should have been, they would've had an accurate Ryo model done in what would feel like 5 minutes had they used their own tools to create these characters.

 

[Alex banana]

Pretty much this, the "outdated" aspect said in the internet is the feel/presentation with the combo of animations, voiceacting and menus which in Shenmue3 are rough in a lot of aspects (even if the english dub being an homage to the originals) and that presentation is a hard sell to modern audiences.

For example, the full speed walking animation loop (no running full analog stick pressed) even to me feels a bit off (it is the one I used the most) it looks like a walking speed of someone rushing, almost to what I would expect a person crossing a semaphore that is blinking) with its big arm swings and such. So just in my experience the animation loop at aroun 0.7 to 0.8 of the analog position feels a lot nicer as a walking animation.

And believe it or not this kind of details are quite important to the feel of the game for newcomers and even some developers call it as "juice"

I agree 100%. The running animation is an important part of the experience. The first two games' running animation would be wise to copy for S4.

 

[Alex banana]

Back on topic.

I've seen a lot of reviews and comments that, as much as I don't like it, would compare Shenmue to Yakuza, and judging by them I would assume that it is what modern standards means to them. And it usually goes like this:

Yakuza is like Shenmue but better, Yakuza is Shenmue done right, Yakuza is like evolution of Shenmue and etc...

I do understand what they mean in a sense, and it pretty much reflects in what op @Alex bana wrote.

It is interesting how Yakuza and Shenmue are got in the same category where they can be comparable though.

More so, it comes down to - Shenmue is bad because it doesn't have things that Yakuza have or doesn't do them in the same way.

But why doesn't it work the other way around? You know, It's not like any of them who plays Yakuza would be asking:

Why can't I talk to every NPC?
Why isn't every character voiced over, and sometimes it's just text only?
Why can't you enter almost every shop?
And many many more..
Shenmue could do all that in the early 2000s why Yakuza can't?

It all may sound ridiculous, but that how I really see it. Focusing on what Yakuza have that Shenmue doesn't, and not on
what Shenmue have that Yakuza doesn't.

And that is what I think people who says that "Yakuza is better Shenmue" are doing.

And with that mindset, does it even matter..

I was using Yakuza as example for a popular series's fighting system that could be copied to appeal to a larger audience. I don't think Yakuza is better than Shenmue at all, but can you imagine how much of a boost it would be if SEGA came back on board or simply allowed YSNet to use SEGA IPs again? Bring back the arcade games, Sonic gatcha gatcha toys and maybe some newer SEGA IP inclusions. If it were advertised (i.e. yakuza's fighting system) by SEGA that would surely help sales.

 

[ric]

Hello, I would prefer the virtua fighters combat system, rather than the S3 one.
Mr YS would have said that the throws would come back in the 4, I can't wait.
In S3, I wasn't interested in minigames or spending my time collecting items to get scrolls, either.
Just as always doing the same thing with the training mannequins, when they would be useful for many other more concrete things, it would have been enough for the YSNET team to allow us to ask the young martial artist in Baïlu village to train us in the movements of arms and legs on the mokujin as in the ip-man series, as well as for the one who executes katas at the top of the wooden logs to teach us the balance and a few sequences of defensive and offensive katas...
If we go down this path, the many fighters that we meet in the game could have taught us much better techniques once defeated ... rather than spending our time hitting them for not to succumb to their blows more powerful than ours.
Let us not forget that the essence and the philosophy of Shenmue want to be martial and would result from the quest of Akira in virtua fighters.
S3 could have been improved in this sense by updates would rebalance everything, even a dlc which would add all these improvements, and why not a special Baïsha dlc to make us train and experiment a new quest while waiting for a hypothetical S4?

 

[orient]

I've always felt that if Sega was behind Shenmue III like they should have been, they would've had an accurate Ryo model done in what would feel like 5 minutes had they used their own tools to create these characters.

Of course, because whenever RGG Studio make a new game they build off years of experience, utilising custom tools they've perfected over time. YS Net didn't have any of that, but hopefully they're given the opportunity to build on the foundation and experience of S3, just like RGG Studio did with Y2.

People tend to forget that Yakuza's had its ups and downs, too. The majority of the PS3/X360 era was not great for the series, in my opinion. I felt Y3 was a big step down from Y2, Y4 was solid but felt like a side story, one that couldn't keep me interested till the end, and by the time Y5 was available in English I was burned out on running around the same places over and over. I'm glad the PS4 era saved the series from its downward spiral, and I'm even happier they had the balls to change it up for Y7.

I agree 100%. The running animation is an important part of the experience. The first two games' running animation would be wise to copy for S4.

I kinda disagree...it was good for the time, but Ryo's S1/2 movement looks robotic nowadays. I think they can do much better with modern tech. S3's movement is a bit goofy and unrefined but I think, with a few tweaks, it could look a lot more natural.