SHENMUE III - REVIEW ROUNDUP

[code l name]

That video made me sad because... I can't really refute any of it. Pretty on the money. It was hard waiting all this time, and it's kinda unfathomable that after finally playing a Shenmue 3, things are still as hard, but in a different way.

I've lost count of how many video scripts I've written, or topics I've went to create on here but just stopped dead in my tracks because I usually end up backing myself into a corner, with no idea of how to get out. No game will ever confuse me on so many levels, more than Shenmue 3.

I thoroughly enjoyed watching your playthrough stream and I am sure not the only one who would enjoy hearing your thoughts in video form of what you think of Shenmue 3, now 6 months plus removed.

I have attempted to start a second playthrough of the game many times but as a PS4 Pro owner I keep reminding myself of how much better the game felt running at 60FPS, so I keep delaying my playthrough until I can sign up for Shadow service again. That along with some of those mods including removing UI and increased FOV.

 

[GhostTrick]

Um... no.

I have ONLY seen games, that give you LESS XP, LESS money and LESS rewards, for doing the same thing on a higher difficulty. You know, to, kinda, make the game more difficult?

Even Knife doesn't see it as valid.

Nah, if they do so, they often give you rare loot or unlockables for doing so.
Hence the point of harder difficulty. Risk for reward.
Some games hide a different ending behind a bigger difficulty. Others gets you rare unlockable weapons or skins (Resident Evil games do that for instance). If you only have seen that, then I have to wonder which games you played and how many.

Because the point to make a game harder also has a point in reward. Making a game more difficult isn't giving you less. Well, it is if you are making a terrible design. Because it means, like Shenmue III, that you only treat difficulty with numbers. It does more damage or you have less health and call it a day.

 

[GhostTrick]

That video made me sad because... I can't really refute any of it. Pretty on the money. It was hard waiting all this time, and it's kinda unfathomable that after finally playing a Shenmue 3, things are still as hard, but in a different way.

I've lost count of how many video scripts I've written, or topics I've went to create on here but just stopped dead in my tracks because I usually end up backing myself into a corner, with no idea of how to get out. No game will ever confuse me on so many levels, more than Shenmue 3.

It's fine to be confused or be backed into a corner.

There's nothing wrong in saying that a game had big issues, that you half of it was boring and that it was ugly and badly written (for the record, I'm not saying it's the case of Shenmue III) and then conclude that you loved it and it was the best thing ever.

People often say that a game is a sum of its parts. I disagree. I dont think an impression of a game or a movie or a book is basically adding the good points, the bad points and then having a conclusion as if you were doing maths.

In the end, your impression is what you vividly remember, what you felt in the end and how was your journey. It's what you felt through it, what you experienced, nothing more, nothing less. "Feels" plays a far bigger part in how you experience something and how you relate to it.

 

[bcdcdude]

I saw that review the other day and thought about posting it here. I chose not to, because I thought what's the point in feeding oxygen to something that is designed to irritate most of us. It truly is a sad thing nowadays that most traffic is done through poking a stick at a fanbase and riling them up. There is truly good journalism out there, but if it's too hard to stand out through all the white noise and bullshit, what's the point?

I can say until i'm blue in the face that Shenmue III isn't the end of the series, but if some people simply don't believe it despite no proof whatsoever this was the case, then I feel it's a waste of my precious time and energy.

6 months removed from Shenmue III, my memories aren't as positive as it was when I played it first time around, but I felt the same with Final Fantasy XV too. It truly is "mono no aware". But giving oxygen to someone who doesn't deserve it is pointless. The reviewer got what he/she wanted - publicity.

As difficult as it is, we shouldn't give them the benefit of publicity.

 

[Down by Law]

It's funny because with every passing month and each new game I play my affection for Shenmue 3 grows. The game world is so well realized it feels like a holiday. Earning the platinum trophy, I spent so much time there, I could draw maps of Bailu and Niawou from memory.

 

[ShenSun]

It's funny because with every passing month and each new game I play my affection for Shenmue 3 grows. The game world is so well realized it feels like a holiday. Earning the platinum trophy, I spent so much time there, I could draw maps of Bailu and Niawou from memory.

Yeah i agree. I find my self just running around bailu and niaowu randomly these days just to explore. A quick 30 minute session here and there. Love it

Shenmue 3 has the environments and gameplay, its just the story and last half that was an issue for most people. Makes me really wish the game had another year in the oven and we got Baisha/the chiyou men story. I think people's enjoyment of the game would have been much higher if that was included.

Overall, i really liked it though and can't wait to jump back in fully. Its a very solid foundation for Shenmue 4. The hard work of creating everything from scratch is done (the majority is anyway). Now suzuki can just add and adjust as he sees fit. He can focus more on the story in Shenmue 4, which he will as there are only two games left.

 

[Sergeynest]

I'm currently in my second playthrough of Shenmue 3; the first one I played in English for nostalgic reasons and I'm now playing in Japanese and I must say that the more I play the more I'm enjoying the game, just like what happened with the first two games. I believe it is because my first playthrough was a little bit rushed, because I wanted to know the story.
Now I'm taking my time with it and playing it how it is supposed to be played, the Shenmue way, and just like with the first two games I'm now hearing new lines of dialogue in my conversations with Shenmhua and all the other side characters and NPC's, I'm also enjoying the mini games a lot more this time around and I've also ramped up the dificulty level to the max and all I can say is that it really hard but at the same time somewhat more realistic.
It hasn't changed my mind about the negatives, but on the other side it enhanced the positives much more than before.
This is my vídeo review on Shenmue 3 and I would really like to know you opinion on it.

 

[code l name]

I'm currently in my second playthrough of Shenmue 3; the first one I played in English for nostalgic reasons and I'm now playing in Japanese and I must say that the more I play the more I'm enjoying the game, just like what happened with the first two games. I believe it is because my first playthrough was a little bit rushed, because I wanted to know the story.

This is my vídeo review on Shenmue 3 and I would really like to know you opinion on it.

Honestly ever since playing Shenmue 2 in Japanese, it’s impossible for me to go back to the dub even though I do get a little nostalgic from the English performances in Shenmue 1. It really makes the game and somewhat clunky dialogue a lot more palatable.

I enjoyed your review and thought it was very fair. Even though I have much stronger feelings on lack of story, stakes and limited characterization I still thoroughly enjoyed my experience. A lot of what your review points out is how much better the game could be in a potential sequel if a lot of these systems could be iterated and adjusted upon.

That’s why I will be bitterly disappointed if they can’t get Shenmue 4 development started soon, because they have a short window to use engine, systems and a lot of foundation work they’ve already completed and make a much stronger game out of it.

 

[Sergeynest]

Honestly ever since playing Shenmue 2 in Japanese, it’s impossible for me to go back to the dub even though I do get a little nostalgic fro. the English performances in Shenmue 1. It really makes the game and somewhat clunky dialogue a lot more palatable.

I enjoyed your review and thought it was very fair. Even though I have much stronger feelings on lack of story, stakes and limited characterization I still thoroughly enjoyed my experience. A lot of what your review points out is how much better the game could be in a potential sequel if a lot of these systems could be iterated and adjusted upon.

That’s why I will be bitterly disappointed if they can’t get Shenmue 4 development started soon, because they have a short window to use engine, systems and a lot of foundation work they’ve already completed and make a much stronger game out of it.

I agree with you and I get the feeling that Yu Suzuki has already realized what most of the fans liked and didn't like about Shenmue 3 and what needs to be ajusted.
One thing that Shenmue 3 proved about Yu Suzuki is that he can be resourcefull guy; he and the team may not have played all the cards right, but I believe they made the best they could with what they had at their disposal.
I also think that Suzuki san already secured funding for Shenmue 4 and that he and the team will definitely make use of the work that they have already done in Shenmue 3 on to Shenmue 4 and with the release of unreal engine 5 in 2021 their work will become much easier and at the same time bring Shenmue 4 into next gen.
Suposing that this is all correct my guess is that Shenmue 4 could be released around 2023 or 2024 depending if they are indeed already at work and how much time will it take for them to adapt to Unreal Engine 5.
I have faith that we will get Shenmue 4 but I'm also aware that there is the possibility that we might not get it. "Fingers Crossed" and positive thinking.

 

[Kiba]

That video made me sad because... I can't really refute any of it. Pretty on the money... No game will ever confuse me on so many levels, more than Shenmue 3.

I respectfully disagree, m'lord. I also proudly dissent from just about everything the gaming community thinks. I have absolutely no desire to ever text wall again in this life, so I'll choose a specific example from the video review in question, cover it concisely, and then promptly dismiss myself from this thread.

Jacks SR criticizes Shenmue 3 for a combination of banal dialogue and boring delivery -- Banal, boring? Or more realistic than he would like to admit about life itself? The latter wouldn't be a criticism of Shenmue, but of his own artistic prejudice against realist aesthetics and perhaps even philosophically his own existential discomfort about the 'emptiness' of daily experience. There is a track in the original Shenmue OST translated into English as "Daily Agony". I always thought that positively summed up the core of the Shenmue style best. I don't care if I'm in the minority here, but I think the meandering, down to earth dialogue in Shenmue has been one of its most uniquely charming highlights since the Prologue, as well as one of the most realist presentations in the history of gaming (and film) to this day. "Good morning, Ryo. Did you get enough rest?" is exactly something my mother would say to me, totally devoid of theatrics because she was bored with her daily agony. I think if people stepped back out of their preconceived notions of what dialogue should be like based on everyone's overexposure to modern drama, they would find Shenmue's to be refreshingly honest, and finally recognize the AAA grit to be as stilted as it really always was. In a hundred years, Last of Us will strike youths like silent film strikes us today: over-exaggerated. A tremendous art style unto itself, but largely ephemeral, for a time and a place and a humanity long gone. But real life in 2120, the daily grind, will be people still talking and acting like Shenmue characters, even Delin (I work with a guy like that, and he doesn't know he sounds obnoxious because nobody knows anything about themselves irl).

In my correct opinion, Yu Suzuki is the Robert Bresson, Yasujiro Ozu, Andrei Tarkovsky, or Stanley Kubrick of gaming, except that he only ever made one narrative game. Most don't get it and never will. Most will fall asleep before they get past 5 min. Those who do get it were already trying to understand the quiet side of life's changes because they are the people who have moved on from waiting for a voice (or trying just about anything to get anything to say anything, metaphysically). That's the whole point of Magic Weather. Other games fake it; Yu made changes real. Suzuki-san already tried to explain all of this during the Shenmue "Post-Mortem" segment about "The old man and the peach tree", that wonderfully simple 1995 predecessor to Virtua Fighter RPG.

 

[mjqjazzbar]

I like that post. I actually posted a couple Ozu films in the thread about films that remind you of Shenmue thread.

mind you, I think the first two games are most successful at capturing the vibe I enjoy.

 

[Kiba]

I like that post. I actually posted a couple Ozu films in the thread about films that remind you of Shenmue thread.

mind you, I think the first two games are most successful at capturing the vibe I enjoy.

Amazing. I love Ozu too for the same reason. I also agree that 1&2 were better at achieving that vibe, but imho I think that has more to do with the setting being more like the common urban or suburban experience of most people. Once Shenmue 2 made the mystical turn at the end, combined with an alien rural setting, 3 was guaranteed to feel much different, more of a dream. Shenhua is a strange dream metaphorically. When Ryo finally returns to the real world in Shenmue 4, it should feel like Dunbar encountering white men again in Dances With Wolves, and once he returns home to the Hazuki dojo it should feel like Frodo's return to Bag End -- more disappointing and doleful than any sense of relief due to having avenged Iwao's murder. Then the end -- return to the dream somehow or never again. I would guess never. But who knows if Yu Suzuki will ever be able to complete what he's trying to do. I hope so.

 

[iknifaugood]

Jacks SR criticizes Shenmue 3 for a combination of banal dialogue and boring delivery -- Banal, boring? Or more realistic than he would like to admit about life itself?

I can't say that I've ever had a conversation where I've said "I'm looking for someone named Smith" and had someone respond with "No, I haven't". I get what you're driving at but I don't think it's an unfair critique of S3 to say it falls short of what you're describing.

In a hundred years, Last of Us will strike youths like silent film strikes us today: over-exaggerated.

But Last of Us is exaggerated--It's about a zombie apocalypse. It's not meant to be some slice of life realistic portrayal of the human condition.

In my correct opinion, Yu Suzuki is the Robert Bresson, Yasujiro Ozu, Andrei Tarkovsky, or Stanley Kubrick of gaming, except that he only ever made one narrative game.

That seems extremely generous considering most of Suzuki's work consists of action packed arcade games.

 

[mjqjazzbar]

I can't say that I've ever had a conversation where I've said "I'm looking for someone named Smith" and had someone respond with "No, I haven't". I get what you're driving at but I don't think it's an unfair critique of S3 to say it falls short of what you're describing.


But Last of Us is exaggerated--It's about a zombie apocalypse. It's not meant to be some slice of life realistic portrayal of the human condition.


That seems extremely generous considering most of Suzuki's work consists of action packed arcade games.

I wouldn’t say the script writing—or at least the localization—is up to the level of classic Japanese cinema, but I understand what kiba means. There is a slow, mundane, slice-of-life vibe to the Shenmue series that feels very much in the tradition of classic Japanese, maybe even Chinese or Taiwanese, cinema. Yu Suzuki is on the record as being a very big movie fan, so I am sure this influence is intentional.

True, Tokyo Story isn’t full of Kung Fu sequences or long passages where protagonists interrogate each other, but there’s a “feeling” that transcends the action/game nature of Shenmue and links it to this kind of thoughtful and meditative cinema. It’s very much the vibe that draws me to Shenmue. As I play Yakuza and become increasingly frustrated with the relentless action of Kamurocho’s mean streets, I feel myself yearning for those quiet alleyways in Dobuita or a moment where I can just wander into shops without worrying about random thugs messing with me.

 

[GhostTrick]

I wouldn’t say the script writing—or at least the localization—is up to the level of classic Japanese cinema, but I understand what kiba means. There is a slow, mundane, slice-of-life vibe to the Shenmue series that feels very much in the tradition of classic Japanese, maybe even Chinese or Taiwanese, cinema. Yu Suzuki is on the record as being a very big movie fan, so I am sure this influence is intentional.

True, Tokyo Story isn’t full of Kung Fu sequences or long passages where protagonists interrogate each other, but there’s a “feeling” that transcends the action/game nature of Shenmue and links it to this kind of thoughtful and meditative cinema. It’s very much the vibe that draws me to Shenmue. As I play Yakuza and become increasingly frustrated with the relentless action of Kamurocho’s mean streets, I feel myself yearning for those quiet alleyways in Dobuita or a moment where I can just wander into shops without worrying about random thugs messing with me.

The problem isn't mundane dialogues. This was a tradition in the serie. The problem is how it plays out.

 

[mjqjazzbar]

I’m not even necessarily commenting on Shenmue 3. It’s just the series’ vibe in general.

 

[Kiba]

There is a slow, mundane, slice-of-life vibe to the Shenmue series that feels very much in the tradition of classic Japanese, maybe even Chinese or Taiwanese, cinema. Yu Suzuki is on the record as being a very big movie fan, so I am sure this influence is intentional... I feel myself yearning for those quiet alleyways in Dobuita

Andrew Juniper said, "If an object or expression can bring about, within us, a sense of serene melancholy and a spiritual longing, then that object could be said to be wabi-sabi."

What's Shenmue? Wabi-sabi. Within the game and meta.

 

[Miles Prower]

I thoroughly enjoyed watching your playthrough stream and I am sure not the only one who would enjoy hearing your thoughts in video form of what you think of Shenmue 3, now 6 months plus removed.

I have attempted to start a second playthrough of the game many times but as a PS4 Pro owner I keep reminding myself of how much better the game felt running at 60FPS, so I keep delaying my playthrough until I can sign up for Shadow service again. That along with some of those mods including removing UI and increased FOV.

I've just finished watching your playthrough as well @Peter, and was quite sad to see your reaction to the ending, because...it was similar to mine.
The build-up going up the stairs and all that is incredible, but Ryo's conversation with Yuan really is kind of disappointing after all this time.
I keep having conflicting thoughts about this game. I actually did have fun in my 2nd playthrough and getting the platinum, and I think I appreciated the whole item exchange system more that time through. It definitely adds a lot and makes getting items/capsule toys more meaningful. But on the other side of the coin, it feels like soooooo much time is wasted finding the Red Snakes (why was this seriously the whole of Niaowu??), and the plot overall barely moves an inch. I can accept that perhaps this point in the story was always meant to be a quieter, focused chapter reinforcing that Ryo needs to train more, but its not quite pulled off, largely due to the interaction with Shenhua completely diminishing by Niaowu.
And I see I'm having likely similar problems to Peter getting my thoughts across about this game in a coherent way

 

[code l name]

I've just finished watching your playthrough as well @Peter, and was quite sad to see your reaction to the ending, because...it was similar to mine.

The build-up going up the stairs and all that is incredible, but Ryo's conversation with Yuan really is kind of disappointing after all this time.

I look back at my posts immediately after completing the game and I pretty had similar reactions, if not more disappointment.

It is a game that felt uneven and like you said the games big moments didn’t have the same gravitas or impact as the originals. Still, there is a lot to appreciate, we knew going in it was a product created under very restrictive requirements. Viewed through that prism it’s amazing what they were able to accomplish, but there’s also part of me which sees there is an excellent game underneath the hood if they didn’t have rushed ending, improved QTE’s, better characterization and had the affinity system have tangible effects.

The hope is now they have foundation they can build something truly special in Shenmue 4.

 

[SalsaShark]

But on the other side of the coin, it feels like soooooo much time is wasted finding the Red Snakes (why was this seriously the whole of Niaowu??), and the plot overall barely moves an inch. I can accept that perhaps this point in the story was always meant to be a quieter, focused chapter reinforcing that Ryo needs to train more, but its not quite pulled off, largely due to the interaction with Shenhua completely diminishing by Niaowu.

I can't shake this gut feeling that there was supposed to be more to Niaowu at one point. I can't base it on anything other than what we already know about Baisha being cut and things having to be restructured around the castle ending, but maybe more had to be left behind than we thought either because it didn't fit anymore or because they ran out of time etc.

Like that first night you get off the boat in Niaowu and have Shenhua with you, npcs react differently to your questions just like in Bailu. That can't have been the only instance of the mechanic for Niaowu they had in mind right?

I don't expect this to happen(nor do I feel entitled to it), but I'd kill for a Shenmue 3: Enhanced Edition that added all the cut stuff back in - sort of like The Witcher 2 which was criticised for an abrupt and unsatisfying ending on initial release as well. Just as long as it's not at the expense of 4 of course.