So Last of Us 2 is getting dragged all over SNS by Users now that it's out

First, it is straight up disappointing, as a gay man, to see even a few folks at the Dojo talking negatively about “SJWs” and “woke politics” with a clear agenda.

In regards to the story, I loved it. It didn’t force any politics, for the record, and did tell a clear story. The reason why some characters change motivation throughout the story is called character development. You don’t think Tommy, after what happened to him, would want revenge at the end of the game?
The happy ending on the farm would have worked for some stories, but not this. It showed perfectly that Ellie had it made, but still couldn’t let it lie. She second-guessed herself multiple times, until she finally was able to move on at the very end, at the cost of everything she loved.
 
This whole premise is kinda stupid when you consider there is no vaccine for fungal infections ;) Which makes the fireflies decision to dissect her brain pointless as they're not gonna find some magical cure. Makes all the bullshit that happens worthless with any real thought :D Hence why I always thought Joel was in the right and never really wanted a sequel in the first place personally. The world is gone and it's simply a matter of finding something to fight for in order to survive. That's the journey of the original game. Watching a broken man find new reason to survive by growing a human connection with someone else. That's what I took away from the first game. Don't give up hope even when the world has ended.

All I took from TLOU 2 was "violence bad!"

At the end of the day, the strength of TLOU wasn't the story. It was the characters. And that's what is sorely missing from TLOU2 the most. The characters just aren't interesting this time around and instead we get a pithy revenge story that really doesn't add up to much of anything as it constantly wants to shock and subvert our expectations because its Director thinks he smarter than everyone in the room.

I've seen better revenge stories tread this same ground and do with it more complexity. So by comparison to other revenge stories that tread similar ground and do it better, I thought this was garbage.

I guess I'll leave it at that and remove myself from this thread. Has nothing to do with the Gay content or what not. I judge solely on the story and I thought the story was pretty garbage. The only interesting things about it were the scenes with Joel and Ellie...those were the only things I found interesting about it as a whole.
 
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I just kind of find it funny how that, when, just for example, people judge Joel by modern standards, nobody ever comes to his defense saying “well you are just a bigot and hate him because he’s a white man” - that’s basically what’s being done with many poorly written stories that fall back on these safeguards. If you want to be exempt from criticism, just arbitrarily decide one of your main characters is diverse and all of a sudden you have a get out of bad writing free card.

And never mind the argument that Joel was even right, but the whole theme of moral ambiguity was the point of which many people seem to forget is why you can’t really judge anyone in this post apocalyptic world in the same way as is. Trying to single out Joel when damn near everyone’s hands are dirty now is simply naive as all hell. Abby, who has no doubt killed countless people in WLF without a second thought, thinks she’s somehow above anyone else, or that the fans think that, is entirely absurd.

As an aside, sure she may not be trans and now it’s just a harmless joke, and sure it may not be impossible for women to build this kind of body mass even in these circumstances, but then that calls into question why not even the other men in her group are even comparatively buff. It really feels like she was designed that way first to make a childish point about some social justice nonsense and the explanation was only made after; not unlike Quiet in mgsv and how Kojima made up some bs about being ashamed of our words and deeds.

So again, why does this irredeemable character deserve any kind of justice? People argue she lost her friends, well, tough. I seriously doubt she cared for any of them given her interactions with them. Never mind the stark contrast in how she shows no remorse when Ellie had given most of them a chance to live and clearly felt guilt after it. That’s a huge part of it - How transparent the writing is, the assumption that Abby is already justified in anything she does, no matter what, whereas they deliberately make Ellie act out of character and force her to do things she would never do had she been written consistently with her previous iteration. It’s not subtle at all with cheap tricks to try and convince you one is bad and the other is good, that just fall flat.
 
Sput said:
Looool

Can you be more specific? Remember anything puntual?



We have a say in Spanish, because a Mexican series:
"La venganza nunca es buena,
mata el alma y la envenena".

Translation would be something like:
"Revenge isnt good,
kills the soul and poisons it".

That's the point of the game. It's okay, but that series teached me that in the 70's. No need of doing this, thanks but no thanks Neil. Next time do a new IP.
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Anyone else thinks that Ren's post isn't hyperbole anymore and if S2 came out today it would receive that kind of treatment by the gaming media/social media ?
 
shredingskin said:
Anyone else thinks that Ren's post isn't hyperbole anymore and if S2 came out today it would receive that kind of treatment by the gaming media/social media ?
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No, it isn’t hyperbole. Say one wrong thing and watch the mob descend on you. Post something and deem it offensive and watch the mob rally to cancel it. Have an opinion that offends someone? Lose your job. Question someones MeToo story? Oh my god! VicTim blaming! You need to listen and believe women you sexist pigs! Post a black square in support of BLM? You white saviour! Don’t post a black square? What are you, a racist or something? Ignore gay pride month? Omg, you homophobe! Have an opinion? Get chewed out that you have white privilege.

And so on, and so on...

I‘m just over pitchfork and torch mobs in general. On both the left and right. I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. The far left and far right are equally as bad as one another and both, unfortunately, are the most fucking vocal on social media especially. I’m just tired of the with us or against us mentality as a whole, and I’ve been growing tired of it for 5 straight years watching it evolve.

Conversation is no longer a thing and everything is now just with us or against us...and I’m fucking tired of it.

(not a dig at anyone here, I’m just so sick of the victim mentality and the culture war that is going on right now)
 
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Sput said:
Looool
Can you be more specific? Remember anything puntual?
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For example the scene Daniel talked about with Tommy, Dina and Ellie
where it feels like the game actually already ended a long time ago
and then it keeps on going. How Tommy for whatever reason wants Ellie to try it again
and then Ellie agrees. Maybe this is a personal problem
but this whole scene, i was like oh come on, you are not going to do that, right?!

I mean you could say that Ellie already died ... at leat two times until that point.
Shes not alive because of her awesome skills against Miss you know who. You know who just didnt kill her.
And now after all that, Ellie was still able to find this nice place with Dina and everything,
but she still wants to try her luck again? Come on, Ellie is not Batman. How does this plan look like in her head?
Does Tommy want her to fail or what?

And then Ellie is only successful because her enemy is in a absolutely horrible condition,
something that Ellie couldnt even know
and even then she only beats the enemy barely because she had luck in this whole situation.
That was also one of the points where i wasnt on Ellies side anymore
because the whole time i was just thinking what the hell are you doing Ellie.

Yes, its basic storytelling and it makes sense as a first draft on a piece of napkin
but not in a full fletched out detailed storyline.
 
danielmann861 said:
No, it isn’t hyperbole. Say one wrong thing and watch the mob descend on you. Post something and deem it offensive and watch the mob rally to cancel it. Have an opinion that offends someone? Lose your job. Question someones MeToo story? Oh my god! VicTim blaming! You need to listen and believe women you sexist pigs! Post a black square in support of BLM? You white saviour! Don’t post a black square? What are you, a racist or something? Ignore gay pride month? Omg, you homophobe! Have an opinion? Get chewed out that you have white privilege.

And so on, and so on...

I‘m just over pitchfork and torch mobs in general. On both the left and right. I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. The far left and far right are equally as bad as one another and both, unfortunately, are the most fucking vocal on social media especially. I’m just tired of the with us or against us mentality as a whole, and I’ve been growing tired of it for 5 straight years watching it evolve.

Conversation is no longer a thing and everything is now just with us or against us...and I’m fucking tired of it.

(not a dig at anyone here, I’m just so sick of the victim mentality and the culture war that is going on right now)
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As I have said to my wife since I started dating her (in 2012), "NOTHING in the world is black and white, when it comes to opinions, viewpoints and stances."

It is as if people need to be shoehorned with a label or a side; I thought they teach us in school from a young age, that labels are bad?
 
Truck_1_0_1_ said:
As I have said to my wife since I started dating her (in 2012), "NOTHING in the world is black and white, when it comes to opinions, viewpoints and stances."

It is as if people need to be shoehorned with a label or a side; I thought they teach us in school from a young age, that labels are bad?
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Yeah that's what I was taught. It's frustrating being an individualist and watching this madness evolve on social media (and slowly spreading into the real world) and what not. People ask me why I don't have a Twitter account. 1.) I never saw the point and 2.) It has become such a vitriolic, toxic and garbage place to spend time on. Why the hell would I want a Twitter account?

Someone might want to put a spoiler warning in the post name...because I'm gonna post this since it made me laugh
q00i710p22751.jpg
 
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The world has gone mad and nuance and critical thinking is dead. All that is left now is mob rule, pitchforking, outrage, gotcha moments, slander, attacking others, accusations, me vs u mentality, ruining peoples lives and politics in everything. I do fear for the future of society. This type of thinking and behavior is actively being encouraged aswell. This will not end up well.

My advice to everyone is to try and stay away from all of that nonsense as much as possible. Its becoming mainstream and seems like a recipe for disaster in terms of society, your mental health and life in general.

We only get one shot at this crazy thing called life, let's make the most of it and enjoy it in a good way.

I haven't played the last of us 2 yet so i haven't got a clue what that's about. I'll probably pick it up on the PS5 when it goes cheap.
 
danielmann861 said:
No, it isn’t hyperbole. Say one wrong thing and watch the mob descend on you. Post something and deem it offensive and watch the mob rally to cancel it. Have an opinion that offends someone? Lose your job. Question someone's MeToo story? Oh my god! VicTim blaming! You need to listen and believe women you sexist pigs! Post a black square in support of BLM? You white saviour! Don’t post a black square? What are you, a racist, or something? Ignore gay pride month? Omg, you homophobe! Have an opinion? Get chewed out that you have white privilege.

And so on, and so on...

I‘m just over pitchfork and torch mobs in general. On both the left and right. I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. The far left and far right are equally as bad as one another and both, unfortunately, are the most fucking vocal on social media especially. I’m just tired of the with us or against us mentality as a whole, and I’ve been growing tired of it for 5 straight years watching it evolve.

Conversation is no longer a thing and everything is now just with us or against us...and I’m fucking tired of it.

(not a dig at anyone here, I’m just so sick of the victim mentality and the culture war that is going on right now)
Click to expand...

I normally don't comment on political matters because of how divisive they are. However, given the contemporary cultural zeitgeist, we live in its impossible to avoid. Modern entertainment tends to feel like political propaganda or it gets turned into propaganda. Ironic, since I go to entertainment purely to escape this world's woes.

Personally, I am of the belief that most people believe in equality for all. Where the sides differ is in how far we have to go in order to achieve this goal. This is something I think could be mitigated if people on both sides would be willing to discuss their opinions civilly with one another.

Sadly though, I think both sides only look at the most extreme members and believe they represent the whole group. The media stokes this fire because it gets them clicks, virtue points, and revenue. In other words, the entire world is telling you how to think and not to think.

To be honest, this whole Last of Us controversy makes me nostalgic for retro video games. The days when most games were just about having fun and not having to tell some intricate stories.
 
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I've been playing the game all week and finally beat it - I had no spoilers and after reading what was leaked I'M very grateful! I don't get why people are offended for the trailers misleading people in the aspect of story - we're seeing a very similar situation to Metal Gear Solid 2 here, which many still disregard (It's actually my favouirte in the series...)

Thoughts on the game:
It felt exhausting!
I feel this game has given us Part 2, 3 & 4! The transition from Ellie to Abby wasn't handled very well. I was playing late at night and when it happened I went along with it thinking okay we're going to see a brief scene from Abby's perspective. The scene from the woods really told everything we needed to know IMO - I gathered her dad was the surgeon from that one scene. I went on with it. Then when it came to customising the weapons and seeing the options ahead of me it really dawned on me that this was going to be longer than a 30 min sequence.

I feel the game needed a better break so players could prepare what was to come. even if it just to to a message with The End of Part 1 & Part 2 could be seen on the menu. It would still held that aura of mystery and intrigue and given us players a break. Sadly throughout most of Abby's campaign, I had the events of the prior section in mind and all I wanted was for it to end so I could get a conclusion on that. I don't want to say it was bad - it has some of the best moments of the game without a doubt! But I just couldn't get over the thoughts for the characters I spent 16 hours with in the previous section.

The confrontation at the home base was good and effective - I genuinely felt sick when choking Ellie as Abby, but then it had ended. So I thought.

I would have been content with leaving Ellie on the Farm and Abby's hope in finding the Fireflies but then the Rattlers came in and we play The Last of Us Part IV. Which I quite liked up until the ending. The problem I have is that we've had this confrontation before, it was settled but now we're going back again - Only to have it unresolved again! Now I wouldn't have minded if Ellie had just let Abby get on the boat and leave (Possibly even more mutilated, to show that she has suffered) but then She fights her AGAIN! The initiation of this conflict really shouldn't have happened and as it did I felt Ellie's motivation/reasoning for stopping just wasn't there. Had they just went separate ways on the boats without confrontation I would have totally bought it but the final fight just opened up that wound and needed closure with the death of one or the other and we didn't get it.
 
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I'm about an hour in. Playing on normal difficulty as I'm just trying to get through all my games ASAP. One thing I did notice is that I wasn't impressed with the graphics. In fact, I was a little disappointed. Anyone else agree?

Could be because I'm playing it right of the back of Death Stranding.
 
I finished the game last night and I can honestly say, hand on heart, it was a masterpiece that stands on par with its predecessor.
I must have played a different game to some people here because I absolutely loved it. Infact this is one of the few times I've actually agreed with the high ratings given by critics.
 
Shadow2222 said:
First, it is straight up disappointing, as a gay man, to see even a few folks at the Dojo talking negatively about “SJWs” and “woke politics” with a clear agenda.
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You could have 100 video games, 100 movies and 100 TV adverts. If one of them features a gay or trans character, then there's an uproar about an agenda being shoved down throats.
 
Well Metacritic took down the User Score. Mixed feelings on that. On the one hand, I get it. On the other, censorship?

Look, for all my complaints, I still think the game is not the masterpiece its critics are heralding it as. Realistically I would give it a 6 out of 10. It's a beautiful technical achievement, but the story worked only in bits and pieces for me and as a whole, I just felt bored to tears by how little it had to say for itself. I think there is a better game in there somewhere waiting to get out but is being held back.

BUT with all that said, some of the reaction on my side of the coin has been immensely stupid and idiotic. Between the Review Bombing and fans actually PETITIONING for a remake of TLOU2...yeah, that's a thing...go ahead and laugh, cause I sure did.

Hell, we know about story disappointment and even WE didn't petition for a remake of Shenmue III <touch wood...please tell me no one did that..,.online petitions like that are dumb...they really don't care and I'm sure they're getting a nice laugh out of this one>

And then others crying about false advertising. Is it really false advertising or red herrings? I mean MGS2 advertising purposely hid Raiden. Did people complain back then? I know people weren't happy about Raiden but did anyone cry false advertising?

There has been a lot of shit on my side of the coin too and I will admit it. I've rolled my eyes at some of the hyperbole reactions. But not all of us are whining about that, I mean I know for me it's simply a matter of the characters sucked and that's what I liked the most about the original game over everything else. It bums me out to see a character that was once compelling and interesting turned into a complete dunce. I don't think the male cast really comes across well in this game at all and that's a shame considering how interesting I thought Joel was in the first game.

I will say one thing...if that is indeed a result of Anita (which I am inclined to think it is based on Neil's fascination with her work), I will say they have it wrong. I don't think the aim should be to inverse the roles and suddenly have the men be useless surrounded by bad ass strong powerful women. I think the goal should be to create equal leads that are as strong as one another or have different facets of strength for both to rely on. That's why I liked the first game. Joel and Ellie were equals in their own rights. They brought something to the table that made that relationship complete and both had individual strengths and weaknesses

And I think that's greatly missing from TLOU2 and partially why some people have responded the way they have. That's my one comment on that front and I will leave it at that. Take from that what you will. But I think writers have got the wrong idea and their goal lately is to simply inverse it by making women strong and powerful and men cannon fodder. I don't think that's the solution to the problem (if there even was one)...but anyways, I don't wish to go here so I'll leave it at that.

But I will admit, a lot of hyperbole on my side of the coin as well. Some of the reactions on my "side" (if you will) are pretty hyperbolic.
 
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Things change during development but deliberately swapping models in game with the intention to deceive in trailers should be called out as misleading. But these AAA devs in bed with Sony are pretty much immune to any legal repercussions so it doesn’t really matter. Just have to hope they will no longer be trusted in the future.
 
BloodyHeartland said:
Things change during development but deliberately swapping models in game with the intention to deceive in trailers should be called out as misleading. But these AAA devs in bed with Sony are pretty much immune to any legal repercussions so it doesn’t really matter. Just have to hope they will no longer be trusted in the future.
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Or it can be interpretated as not revealing the plot and twists. Lets be realistic, the main attraction to this kind of games is the plot so they could consider it as spoilers.

Obviously, they could also go to a Hollywood approach and put trailers full of spoilers like they usually do...
 
Sonoshee said:
I finished the game last night and I can honestly say, hand on heart, it was a masterpiece that stands on par with its predecessor.
I must have played a different game to some people here because I absolutely loved it. Infact this is one of the few times I've actually agreed with the high ratings given by critics.
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Nooo not you Sonoshee, you broke my heart :crying:

Creward said:
Or it can be interpretated as not revealing the plot and twists.
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Then dont show it.
 
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