So Last of Us 2 is getting dragged all over SNS by Users now that it's out

Stiz said:
To tell you the truth it is being reviewed bombed.
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Sure it is, there are people out there low balling it, but I still wouldn't give it much more than a 4 or 5 out of 10 having actually played it. The story really is rubbish and considering it's a game you're playing mostly for the story then yeah, it kind of makes the gameplay feel absolutely redundant.

After 10 hours of this, I begrudgingly finished it. I hated playing it. The story was just frustrating to me and wading through 17 or 18 hours of one stealth set piece after another got real tiring . Outside of a couple of scenes here and there that help break up the repetitiveness, I just found some of the stealth areas tiresome after a bit.

I have SO many issues with this game that I could keep going on. But I won't otherwise I'll be here all day. But yeah, I legitimately think it's worthy of a low score. Outside of visual and technical presentation which is typically first class, I just don't think there is much else here holding it together. The gameplay winds up being a chore and the story is so badly written that it feels like it was a first draft that had no polish applied to it.

I feel it had nothing of interest to say even though it thinks it's deep and profound. When in reality, it's about as deep as a puddle. It's marred by characters that feel badly written, marred by characters who are so woefully under developed and marred by a non linear narrative that doesn't add up to much of anything. And yet, within there are momentary flashes of something that could have been greater. Everything involving Joel and Ellie is wonderful and should have been what the game was about. Everything involving Abby just left me cold and indifferent. I did not care about her. At all. I was so apathetic towards her no matter how much they tried to make me like her.

In fact, outside of maybe Jesse or Dina, everyone in this game was such a piece of shit that it was hard to like any of them.

Look what they did to Tommy. At the beginning of the game, he is actively trying to talk Ellie out of revenge. But then he goes off looking for revenge on his own leaving Ellie behind. Yet by the end of the game, he starts laying the guilt trip on Ellie to finish the job? The writing was so fucking bi polar and inconsistent that it just became laughable.

Anyways, I honestly think it's a complete mess from a narrative perspective at least.
 
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i haven't played it yet but the memes people are making are hilarious.
 
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shredingskin said:
To the people that played it:
Did you expect anything different ?
Have you seen the leaks ?
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I saw one leak when they were breaking

I knew Joel died. I saw that leak. But i've been Team Joel Dies ever since I saw the announcement trailer. The announcement trailer gave me that feeling of "Joel's dead." Oh and I knew you played as Abbey. That was the only other spoiler I knew. But I didn't know the rest of the game. I hadn't gone much further than that with spoilers just because I did want to see the game for myself. I was at least hoping it would all add up to something. I wasn't sore about Joel dying so long as it told a compelling story out of it....boy was I wrong on that front.
 
It honestly feels like they just went for the most common revenge trope and tried to bridge the gap of meaning with shock value.
It makes me wonder how S3 will do it's revenge arc.
 
Nigel said:
To your point of challenging the audience, there's a difference between "let's develop a game where perspective blurs who is/isn't the antagonist" and "look what I did, I shook up the dressing jar." This feels much more like the latter.
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I was hoping that would be the case. When I first heard that leak in particular -- the protagonist swap -- I really thought it had potential to do something of interest with it. But no matter how hard they tried, I just didn't give a fuck about her.

It honestly feels like they were trying to go for something much larger by showing both sides of one vengeance story and, as you said, blur those lines. But in the end, it kind of negates any point to be made. Abby gets away with her vengeance and for the most part walks away clean. I mean, she was ready to kill Dina in cold blood even after finding out she was pregnant. It was only that Lev happened to be there that she reconsidered. Meanwhile, Ellie had a near breakdown of guilt after she found out she killed a pregnant woman in cold blood. And yet, Ellie chooses forgiveness in the end and walks away with nothing? Walks away without her family and left without her fingers?

The game tries so hard to make us feel empathy for Abby, and yet, I never once felt anything but apathy for her. Meanwhile, the game tries to paint Ellie and Joel almost as the bad guys in the equation, yet they actually have more depth to them as characters and are still far and away more interesting to study.

I think, if you want to try and blur those lines, then you'd better make Abby way more interesting than what she was. But I sure as hell didn't see that. Instead, I played as a character I was largely apathetic to for countless hours...to the point where it made me want to quit the game. Almost. It was only because I begrudgingly wanted to see it through hoping it would get better. It didn't. It really didn't.

And then the stuff with the war between WLF and The Seraphites. That was so entirely pointless....could have been interesting. Maybe if they had made a narrative devoted to it without all the revenge stuff on the side then maybe it could have been interesting. But it's just a further example of how completely and utterly scatterbrain the story is. It has a world of ideas running through it's head, but it's about as deep as a puddle on close inspection.

I also find it hilarious to watch streamer reactions. If Naughty Dog really thought they were onto something with Abby and it was gonna make female gamer's feel empowered then they should actually go and watch some of the female streamer reactions to Joel's death. Where those same women actively call Abby a bitch and wish instant death on her for killing Joel.

Mind you, I don't care that Joel died. I've been Team Joel's Dead ever since the announcement trailer hit way back when. But I would have at least liked it to mean something or have a better story surrounding it.

But again, 10 out of 10...it's a masterpiece...if you don't like it then you're a sexist or a homophobe or whatever shield they want to hide behind today. Couldn't just be that they wrote a shit story now could it?
 
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At the end of the day I feel there are games that do the revenge theme way better, even the less serious ones...both No More Heroes, both Red Dead Redemptions, GTA4, Nier and Nier Automata, Saints Row 2, Shenmue even without knowing how it will resolve, even willing to list MGSV despite hating it compared to others in the series. And many of those did have some sympathetic villains or let you see both sides without painting the protagonist as some bad guy and retconning crucial details just to do so.
 
I'm 6 hours in and loving it so far.
One part inparticular - for those who've played it or watched playthroughs - will know one intense section I am referring to under that 6 hour mark; it had me in tears and I had to pause for 5 minutes to sort my face out.
Can't wait to continue later on today.
 
Games should not have "woke politics" in them that is absolute garbage. Seems it was so bad that many people working on the game left for it.
The same thing happened with Terminator Dark Fate and Ghostbuster's feminist edition. It seems a lot of "indy games" is pushing this as well. So it's understandable for people to be irritated by it. It's the same thing with BLM now I even had to see a banner of BLM all the time during my work since they put it obnoxiously on the docs.
 
I am pretty sure that I would not like the game becuase I never finished the 1st one, nor I am a fan of Naughty Dog. That said, anyone with a problem with this game just because the lead character is a female and a lesbian has clear problem of homophobia. Period. In this thread you can find a lot of examples of things that are wrong with this game, and none of them is because of the sexual orientation or the gender of the main character.

Accusing games with a sexual diversity of some kind of "woke agenda" or "those evil SJW" it's a clear example of what is wrong with the gaming community, and a clear example of how toxic a part of this community is. Some people looks like anything not macho is an attack on their fragile masculinity "oh no some girls are playing Ghosbuster now" or "I can not relate to that Horizon gal, I am a real man, I live in my mother's basement but I can relate to this mega macho shooter character"... Homophophia, sexism and even racism is a real thing in the gaming community, and any times someone dares to try to tell a story with a non male main character some stupid trolls surfaces to make pig noises all the fucking time.

Thanks to those trolls and some coward companies like Rockstar, that does not want to loose those users, we lost the chancce of having a much better Red Dead Redemption 2 if they had focused the post game on Sadie Adler, for example. But it is better for the far right trolls be queit to have a real man on the cover art.

So at the end of the day probably TLOU2 is not a 10 nor a 0, but fair criticism is being ignored just because a bunch of crying incels are complaining about lesbians. Fuck off.
 
We got an SJW in here lmao

The whole thing about the “bigot sandwich” and Ellie biting off her nose to spite her face are a prime example of what is wrong with the writers and the fans who eat this shit up and say “thanks”. Jesus Christ. It’s not at all homophobic to point out that these devs are only using these things like companies are using their BLM squares to not get destroyed by these self righteous children.

You only have to look at Druckman and what he himself has outright admitted to see there was an agenda from the very beginning. Not all devs are stupid enough to claim the same but it’s pretty clear in many other games that do, whether it’s Life is Strange or God of War or the Tomb Raider reboot, etc. Trying to push the whole toxic masculinity stuff is complete and utter garbage and brainwashing.

Sadie as the protagonist of RDR2...how fucking moronic not to even get the point of her character or her arc, holy shit. Charles was the voice of reason in the situation at the end, whereas she was far gone and both her and John’s actions lead directly to how bad things turned out for him in the first game.
 
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Kyo_JP said:
I am pretty sure that I would not like the game becuase I never finished the 1st one, nor I am a fan of Naughty Dog. That said, anyone with a problem with this game just because the lead character is a female and a lesbian has clear problem of homophobia. Period. In this thread you can find a lot of examples of things that are wrong with this game, and none of them is because of the sexual orientation or the gender of the main character.

Accusing games with a sexual diversity of some kind of "woke agenda" or "those evil SJW" it's a clear example of what is wrong with the gaming community, and a clear example of how toxic a part of this community is. Some people looks like anything not macho is an attack on their fragile masculinity "oh no some girls are playing Ghosbuster now" or "I can not relate to that Horizon gal, I am a real man, I live in my mother's basement but I can relate to this mega macho shooter character"... Homophophia, sexism and even racism is a real thing in the gaming community, and any times someone dares to try to tell a story with a non male main character some stupid trolls surfaces to make pig noises all the fucking time.

Thanks to those trolls and some coward companies like Rockstar, that does not want to loose those users, we lost the chancce of having a much better Red Dead Redemption 2 if they had focused the post game on Sadie Adler, for example. But it is better for the far right trolls be queit to have a real man on the cover art.

So at the end of the day probably TLOU2 is not a 10 nor a 0, but fair criticism is being ignored just because a bunch of crying incels are complaining about lesbians. Fuck off.
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You are from Spain so you have no idea what is going on here and how much is forced not only in media, news, universities, schools and now even video games.

1) The problem with the game is not that the cast is a lesbian if that was the case many people would think is "hot".
The issue is that the character has a relationship, and there is a group of religious people who are opposing gay relationships due to their religious belief and they become the main antagonist in the game. This makes the game a clear attack on religion.
Which is the reason why many people working on the game felt insulted and quit.
I do believe in respecting people's religion which is someone they hold sacred as well many of our ancestors, deceased family members and current family members and if you got a problem with that then you will have a personal problem with me.

2) Ghostbusters, I was a big fan for the series since I was a kid, it was basically my childhood as well as ninja turtles and always wanted a sequel. Yet they removed the entire male casts and made the male "character" look like a foul compared to women.
The movie failed and what they did? They went on a tantrum that it was "patriarchy" fault and it was fault for people been misogynist. Then when new movie was announced they attacked it on twitter, a movie where the cast will actually appear in the movie.

3) The argument on racism has no merit, if that was true, sport games would not sell so well and GTA san Andreas would have not been the top-selling game in PS2 which is the most selling console of all time.

4) Female Casts? How come Tomb Raider Lara Croft is such a popular franchise? Final Fantasy VI Celes? Resident Evil series been so popular? Metroid? Alien series Ellen Ripley? Beyond Good and Evil?

People don't care about having a lesbian or lead female cast at all. As well women should not replaced men in long-standing franchises is idiotic, they should create their own story and character. The same way it would be idiotic to have a "Wonder man" or Xeno the Warrior Prince.
 
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Before this descends into some tit for tat arguement, move away from the line of discussion now.

Also to make it clear the Dojo does not tolerate racism, homophobic or anti-semitic comments of any sort on this forum.

Any more of this and it will be met with warnings and bans.
 
Kyo_JP said:
I am pretty sure that I would not like the game becuase I never finished the 1st one, nor I am a fan of Naughty Dog. That said, anyone with a problem with this game just because the lead character is a female and a lesbian has clear problem of homophobia. Period. In this thread you can find a lot of examples of things that are wrong with this game, and none of them is because of the sexual orientation or the gender of the main character.

Accusing games with a sexual diversity of some kind of "woke agenda" or "those evil SJW" it's a clear example of what is wrong with the gaming community, and a clear example of how toxic a part of this community is. Some people looks like anything not macho is an attack on their fragile masculinity "oh no some girls are playing Ghosbuster now" or "I can not relate to that Horizon gal, I am a real man, I live in my mother's basement but I can relate to this mega macho shooter character"... Homophophia, sexism and even racism is a real thing in the gaming community, and any times someone dares to try to tell a story with a non male main character some stupid trolls surfaces to make pig noises all the fucking time.

Thanks to those trolls and some coward companies like Rockstar, that does not want to loose those users, we lost the chancce of having a much better Red Dead Redemption 2 if they had focused the post game on Sadie Adler, for example. But it is better for the far right trolls be queit to have a real man on the cover art.

So at the end of the day probably TLOU2 is not a 10 nor a 0, but fair criticism is being ignored just because a bunch of crying incels are complaining about lesbians. Fuck off.
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Ellie has long been established as a lesbian, so it is a complete falsehood to claim this is what people have a problem with. Of course, there will always be those who take issue with this fact, irrespective of the medium, but for the vast majority? Demonstrably not, especially when you take a look at how well the Left Behind DLC was received.

The "woke agenda" thing sprung from two sources: (1) the 4chan info dump which incorrectly stated that Abby is transgender (though, going by her physical appearance, it's not hard to see how this association was made), and (2) Neil Druckmann's whole "subverting expectations" shtick and his relationship with that charlatan Anita Sarkeesian, whom he was undoubtedly influenced by. Take a look at this video and see how what he says translates into The Last of Us Part II. He flat-out states that gamers "sexualise," "objectify," and "marginalise" attractive female characters, not acknowledging for even a second the below-surface-level characteristics that make these characters beloved by so many.

So what does he go and do? Under the guise of "subverting expectations," (i.e., below average looks, male body frame, aggressive demeanour, forthright, devoid of femininity, etc.) he creates a pastiche of what he considers to be the archetypal male character - strong, capable, and heroic, only exaggerated to the point of parody, completely disregarding the myriad of female characters he was dead set on avoiding emulating who champion these very aspects - in a (barely) female body who ends up being completely unlikeable at best and hated at worst by players.

If Druckmann's hope was to become a trendsetter with regards to introducing characters who "subvert expectations" into the medium, he utterly failed. His equation was flawed and the result was, inevitably, a disaster.
 
Ren said:
1) The problem with the game is not that the cast is a lesbian if that was the case many people would think is "hot".
The issue is that the character..
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to be honest i would of been more shocked if ellie was straight with a male love interest.

i feel making her a lesbian has less to do with being pro lgbt+ and more with making gamers (mainly men) comfortable playing as a female character.
 
Reading in here that this game is even more brutal than the first one is an instant deal-breaker for me. I finished the first one but I found the gore discomforting at times.

I like horror games, played my fair share of those. Dreamcast /GameCube era Resident Evils, Silent Hill 2, Yakuza games which are also super brutal but something about TLOU's brutality just throws me off.

I don't know, Silent Hill 2 is a lot scarier than TLOU 1 but in a good way whereas TLOU is less scary but more graphic which I don't like.

I ccan only spare a very limited amount of time per week for games and I want to feel comfortable and intrigued or happy, or excited, or amazed when playing, not appalled.

Guess Im not manly enough :cool: but yeah. Not gonna play this.

For the record, I'm not saying the game sucks but it's not for me. Glad I'm not missing out on a great story, though. :D
 
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