The negativity surrounding Shenmue3

[GhostTrick]

Everybody here knows that. Why do think people here are ordering multiple copies of the game? I can only speak for myself, but I have no doubt that it's in part due to fear. This Epic controversy shitshow has honestly rattled the Shenmue community in the eleventh hour. Now there are those that are afraid that if they don't support Shenmue III with everything they've got, we will never see a Shenmue IV. While others really are just hardcore collectors. Also I disagree that Deep Silver cares about a new audience, all they care about is making money. They don't care where that money comes from.

Well yeah you're right. They care about the money. Which was my point about the "new audience". Because they dont expect it to come from fans, who for the most part already backed the game. Heck, if the game relied on backers and fans. If each of us, 70k backers, bought the game 3 times. That'd be only 210 000 copies. That'd mean non fans would need to buy 290 000 copies to reach half a million. Which might not be enough in the eyes of Deep Silver. And there's another thing to account.

While I'm hopeful that China might be a surprising data here, in which the game might be really popular there, keep in mind Deep Silver litterally sees 0 dollars from Chinese sales.

Which is why a new audience is important. But it can only come if the game receive a moderate to good critical reception.

 

[Van Joel Sandwich]

It's precisely the whiners that I don't like. Their headquarters is at the kickstarter page (if you want to see some real whiners go there) and they often venture to twitter also. hahaha
People here tend to arrive at common ground and thats cool. The same cannot be said about some other places tho.
This is a game people are waiting for 18 years so it's normal people talk about every detail Louis . lol

As for me to start this thread, I was just expressing my honest disapointment with the coverage we're getting, wich is a feeling many of us fans share right now.


I still very optimistic about the game itself. I love almost everything I've seen about it so far.

In a pharalel universe, I would love to see every big youtuber talking good things about Shenmue.
(of course I know that's never going to be the case tho. specially now.)
But all this can be irrelevant. If the game is good enough, I think it will eclipse all this other stuff that bothers so many people.

 

[Araviel]

While I'm hopeful that China might be a surprising data here

Same. If they could just get that right (hire someone short term for China PR only) then they could indeed end up surpassing targets. Heck, they changed the gambling system to appease Chinese law, why wouldn't they go all in and promote the hell out of it yet? I find it a bit bizarre, very half way. Again, I will eat my words if they suddenly turn on the "China marketing switch", trailers officially set with Chinese VA, background story... I really hope they do.

 

[Spaghetti]

But comparing Shenmue to RDR and Zelda isn’t it.

Without trying to be rude, I think you probably could have saved yourself the time of writing your post if you'd read mine a little closer. It's very much not about comparing other games to Shenmue III.

Here is that section again:

(...) even in calmer seas it's a crap shoot trying to take the temperature of such a fickle and reactionary bunch like gamers, let alone with the turbulence we're experiencing now.

RDR2 was anticipated as a revolutionary Game of the Generation-tier behemoth, but most of the post-release discussion about it was dominated by what it did "wrong". I saw NeoGAF flip on Breath of the Wild pre-release, positive to negative to positive again. How many times have we seen armchair analysts predict a failure or a success and been proven wrong, how many "controversies" are forgotten once they're out of the news cycle long enough?

"The only opinions that are given respect here are ones that are positive 100% of the time."

This isn't true BTW, and I've been here long enough to recognise this is the last playing card left before crying censorship and attacking the site staff (which I see you've already begun), because people won't agree with you en masse like nodding dogs.

There are quite a lot of mediating positions here that take the bad with the good (even though mine is making a positive case with anecdotal evidence, I also admit the obvious that the situation is very turbulent right now), but there is a rejection of the opinion that there is blanket negativity about the game, because it's not actually true. There's no point getting angry if people can see light shining through the cracks in the darkness, because they're definitely there.

Anyway, I'm slipping into bad habits posting here when I said I wouldn't, so take this as really all I've got to say on the matter.

 

[Tosh]

why is it such a surprise that a Shenmue board is more positive about Shenmue?
i mean ... surprise surprise?
and how is a positive attitude a bad thing now,
do we want another board where we just talk about bad things and how XYZ could be better
and they did this wrong and that wrong and its terrible and a disaster.
i think you know this, but we already have these kind of forums and communities on other websites.

this here is the website of the fan community, if even we are just talking about the bad things and how everything is doomed,
then we are doing nothing different than the pure hate and rage sites.
how does this help our community or Shenmue 3?

if YSNet, DS or Epic cares, they will notice the criticism 100%
because they already get bombarded on KS, Twitter, Facebook, Email ...

i think its totally fine that there is a fan website / community that is not so harsh
because we already have more than enough websites where it is the opposite.

 

[Jibby]

For the sake of transparency, let me just say that Space Lion is a notorious long-time banned member who was evading their ban. Staff have known this for a little while now but were giving the user benefit of the doubt to see if they had changed their ways, unfortunately though we've seen too many examples of the behavior that got them banned in the first place. As a result we've reissued the user with a ban.

If anyone wants to discuss the decision, feel free to fire over a PM.

 

[高野和泉]

PR has been a nightmare. @this point Yu polishing the game to the best he can and blowing away people/critics/press will reverse the infamy controversies its in now.

If the game delivers:

-Backers will be proud
-Press will back-off the negativity/do good round of Pr
-Marketing can be adjusted to fit in the critically acclaimed reviews

etc, etc...

But if Sega doesn't step in for SIV I hope Yu picks his running mates more carefully going forward. Shoot, Us fans will do PR/Marketing for free and even better than a paid firm/team. But he needs to direct an internal staff/person to engage us more on Sns.

 

[spud1897]

PR has been a nightmare. @this point Yu polishing the game to the best he can and blowing away people/critics/press will reverse the infamy controversies its in now.

If the game delivers:

-Backers will be proud
-Press will back-off the negativity/do good round of Pr
-Marketing can be adjusted to fit in the critically acclaimed reviews

etc, etc...

But if Sega doesn't step in for SIV I hope Yu picks his running mates more carefully going forward. Shoot, Us fans will do PR/Marketing for free and even better than a paid firm/team. But he needs to direct an internal staff/person to engage us more on Sns.

I wonder how much say Yu has over the marketing. I agree that DS or whoever could/should use the fan communities more than they have done thus far. SEGA actually did it quite well with the re-releases in that respect.

 

[Nathanial Essex]

I follow Yong but even outside of Shenmue, he bitches way too much. It does have an impact on the much needed new fans we need for this game to be an success but even without hindsight, I feel the publishers should have done a much better job. More than a few cringe-worthy moments and character models were shown in trailers when they didn't have to be. Also, the whole Epic exclusive controversy could have been seen from a mile away and for them to not offer refunds only to bend over afterwards is very similar to what Microsoft done with the whole always-online thing which put me right off the Xbox.

This game was always, seemingly, going to have as many haters as lovers. Said it before and I said it again, this is why I wanted this game to be the last and just wrap everything up.

 

[高野和泉]

I wonder how much say Yu has over the marketing. I agree that DS or whoever could/should use the fan communities more than they have done thus far. SEGA actually did it quite well with the re-releases in that respect.

Sega no longer have marketing prowress like the old days so using free PR/Marketing from passionate fans was very smart.

 

[9dragons]

To market Shenmue the proper way is a hard task and almost impossible to achieve… Shenmue just caters the taste of a very small amout of People. It does over stuff for everbody.

And do not get me wrong, I do not want to appear as an elitist but I think Shenmue is not for everbody and you should not even try to make it a game for everbody.


Shenmue is for people with Patience, for people that want to listen to thinks people say in the game and learn from it.

It is not for the typical Mainstream gamer that just wants to have fun and Progress fast, without thinking much about the Things that are going on in the game.


The best chane for S4 is a good Shenmue 3 that makes all the fans happy. Happy fans might make S3 a financial hit and so there might be Maybe a Chance for 4.

I am not saying that the fanbase should give up to get new people aboard, I wish that many people will fell in love with Shenmue, I am an Optimist after all.

But everytime I watch the modern day gaming landscape and the games that are sucessful I hardly doubt that Shenmue has a place in this landscape.

It was and still is a hidden gem type game.

 

[高野和泉]

To market Shenmue the proper way is a hard task and almost impossible to achieve… Shenmue just caters the taste of a very small amout of People. It does over stuff for everbody.

And do not get me wrong, I do not want to appear as an elitist but I think Shenmue is not for everbody and you should not even try to make it a game for everbody.


Shenmue is for people with Patience, for people that want to listen to thinks people say in the game and learn from it.

It is not for the typical Mainstream gamer that just wants to have fun and Progress fast, without thinking much about the Things that are going on in the game.


The best chane for S4 is a good Shenmue 3 that makes all the fans happy. Happy fans might make S3 a financial hit and so there might be Maybe a Chance for 4.

I am not saying that the fanbase should give up to get new people aboard, I wish that many people will fell in love with Shenmue, I am an Optimist after all.

But everytime I watch the modern day gaming landscape and the games that are sucessful I hardly doubt that Shenmue has a place in this landscape.

It was and still is a hidden gem type game.

I always find it abit weird knowing that Shenmue won't appeal to everyone/mainstream taste but as a game it embodies alot/majority of genres under its own over-arching "F.R.E.E" vision.

 

[Down by Law]

One huge, maybe once in a lifetime advantage Shenmue III has to succeed is that with the 20 year break in the series (going by the original japanese 1999 release date) that's an awfully long time for a series to pick up lots of fans that never contributed to the sales of the series originally. Those once sold as new copies of Shenmue and Shenmue II from back in the day have probably been enjoyed 10, hell maybe 20 times over by people who would now buy a third installment, and not necessarily the HD versions released last year.

I was talking to a work colleague about three years ago who I didn't even know was into gaming (he doesn't own any of the current formats) and he started talking to me about owning a Dreamcast and that Shenmue was his favorite series and he didn't even know the 3rd was in development! You'll never find these people in message boards and youtube comments but he's buying a copy and a PS4 on release date.

I was 15 when the first game came out with no disposable income, I'm 34 this year and have preordered two special editions, one to keep and one to collect.

The gaming market is so much bigger than it was twenty years ago as well.

Some good reviews and marketing in the push toward christmas will help. The PS4/PC userbase is enormous and if Shenmue could shift 1.2 million copies on the Dreamcast then anythings possible.

The Epic deal is supposedly such a large volume of cash (millions) that will also effectively pay for a ton of copies.

Yakuza had gained a wealth of popularity and to bring up Red Dead again, a lot of gamers compared parts of that to the Shenmue games, so there's a good crossover of potential new fans there.

Just stay positive and enjoy the ride because when Shenmue 3 finally releases we will probably never see anything like this, a two decade old series bought back from the dead through the power of fan support, again in our lifetimes.

 

[GhostTrick]

To market Shenmue the proper way is a hard task and almost impossible to achieve… Shenmue just caters the taste of a very small amout of People. It does over stuff for everbody.

And do not get me wrong, I do not want to appear as an elitist but I think Shenmue is not for everbody and you should not even try to make it a game for everbody.


Shenmue is for people with Patience, for people that want to listen to thinks people say in the game and learn from it.

It is not for the typical Mainstream gamer that just wants to have fun and Progress fast, without thinking much about the Things that are going on in the game.


The best chane for S4 is a good Shenmue 3 that makes all the fans happy. Happy fans might make S3 a financial hit and so there might be Maybe a Chance for 4.

I am not saying that the fanbase should give up to get new people aboard, I wish that many people will fell in love with Shenmue, I am an Optimist after all.

But everytime I watch the modern day gaming landscape and the games that are sucessful I hardly doubt that Shenmue has a place in this landscape.

It was and still is a hidden gem type game.

Sorry, I disagree here. The idea that Shenmue is a game impossible to market is wrong imo. Because that'd mean there'd be no strength in the game.

I actually think, especially nowadays, that a game like Shenmue can easily be marketed. It's just marketed the wrong way.

Shenmue is a game with a strong atmosphere. It's a game about a travel. A journey. Not only it's a personal journey for the main character, it's also a journey around beautiful landscape and a well crated world. It's a game with a charming, likeable, well written cast.

The problem is that Shenmue was marketed as a life simulator. Forklifting, playing mini games. Taking the bus. The problem is that Shenmue released on the wrong platforms commercially wise.

But the idea that you cant market a game with amazing world building, a living city with touching characters, with such a memorable journey is a wrong one imo.

I tried hard to convince a lot of people to play those games. Young and less young people, from 16 to 28. And they all loved it. Why ? Because it's an adventure. Because it's mystical. Because it's engaging. Because of those wonderful moments. Because of all those characters you quickly get attached to.

There are a lot of niche games that were marketed around their story. Around their world. If you can market a game like Life is Strange. If you can market a game like Gone Home. If you can market a visual novel or an adventure game. You can market Shenmue.

I'm thankful to Deep Silver. Despite their dumb Epic deal. I'm thankful to them for investing in the game. But I'll be honest, they've been bad at marketing the game. The closest successful attempt was the prophecy trailer. But for the rest... Welp.

If we were to market Shenmue I and II, I'd think that, if we were to make trailers, we'd all pretty much put more or less the same scenes. But we also know we wouldn't focus the marketing on lighter scenes or more tedious ones.

In any case, Shenmue I and II were a love letter to adventure games. And I definitely know they have the potential to appeal and talk to a lot more people than we think. But they just need to give it a chance first.

 

[9dragons]

Shenmue 3 is a small Budget game. For good Marketing you need impressive Scenes. But the Marketing People of Shenue do not have the luxuary to pick some certain Scenes from the to make a impressive Action clip because the game might not be Ready yet or the certain scenes are not polished yet.

With a Unlimited marekting Budget you can do lots of Things but S3 lacks the Unlimited Marketing Budget you would need to please the picky gaming crowd of today.

 

[GhostTrick]

Shenmue 3 is a small Budget game. For good Marketing you need impressive Scenes. But the Marketing People of Shenue do not have the luxuary to pick some certain Scenes from the to make a impressive Action clip because the game might not be Ready yet or the certain scenes are not polished yet.

With a Unlimited marekting Budget you can do lots of Things but S3 lacks the Unlimited Marketing Budget you would need to please the picky gaming crowd of today.

Impressive scenes arent only about how they look. It's also about what they convey.

 

[9dragons]

Good Looking scenes matters the most. All modern day gaming Trailers feature them for a reason because it works.

But my opinion is different than yours. I have no problem with the Trailers so far. For me they just Shenmue and that is what I want.

In order to Appeal newbies you have to make a long Story Trailer, with recaps of the old game, and then some Scenes. To make such stuff you Need loads of Money, a aspect that DS lacks. They also Need to higher experienced Trailer makes to make such a recap.

But that is just my opinion.

 

[Araviel]

Good Looking scenes matters the most. All modern day gaming Trailers feature them for a reason because it works.

But my opinion is different than yours. I have no problem with the Trailers so far. For me they just Shenmue and that is what I want.

In order to Appeal newbies you have to make a long Story Trailer, with recaps of the old game, and then some Scenes. To make such stuff you Need loads of Money, a aspect that DS lacks. They also Need to higher experienced Trailer makes to make such a recap.

But that is just my opinion.

Quite! The best trailer would be something like ... the first half a recap; Iwao is killed, Ryo in Dobuita, Ryo leaving and entering Hong Kong, learning from different masters, bit of Kowloon, meeting Shenhua. Then the second half all Shenmue 3; some story, some action, some lore, (some love?).

 

[Van Joel Sandwich]

Quite! The best trailer would be something like ... the first half a recap; Iwao is killed, Ryo in Dobuita, Ryo leaving and entering Hong Kong, learning from different masters, bit of Kowloon, meeting Shenhua. Then the second half all Shenmue 3; some story, some action, some lore, (some love?).

woow! Actually a good ideia! That would be great for something like a "story trailer" !

 

[VukBZ2005]

Like many of you, I wish DS would work with the community more. It will help to get the word out on Shenmue III in so many ways.

Also, given the concerning marketing situation, especially in China AFAIK, I would consider an SIII sales number of 500K-1M as both reasonable & grounds for continuing the series.

If its marketing was in a better place, a higher sales range, i.e., 1.2M-2.1M, is what I'd expect.

EDIT: I would be more than shocked if it got to 1.5M in sales.