Updated Chi You Men Leaders Photo

tomboz said:
I’m starting to wonder whether the prophecy is a metaphor for the destruction that will be caused by the impending war between Lan Di (the dragon) and Niao Sun (the Phoenix). Chiyou is the god of war in Chinese mythology so the prophecy could be suggesting that Niao-Sun rising up will bring death and destruction to China.

That said, Shenhua could just as easily be the Phoenix and the power within her could be the spirit of Chiyou.

This power seems to enable her to live for a long time (possible eternally) without aging and so it would make sense for Tentei/Zhu to covet this power now that he’s starting to get on a bit.
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The prophecy is for sure a metaphor. I used to think that it was talking about Lan Di, as the dragon rising from the earth, casting the heavens into darkness, and Shenhua as the phoenix, descending with a trail of violet in its wake. It might be pulling double (triple?) duty, though.

I'm pretty sure Suzuki mentioned in one of the Shenmue Masters interviews that Shenhua is legitimately 16 years old, and not immortal, or anything. In the Kickstarter interview with Miyawaki, he mentioned that the original design request for Shenhua was for a Tibetan girl. So, I tend to think that Shenhua is meant to be the reincarnation of a historically prophetic figure, like the Dalai Lama, for instance. This would explain why she has memories of her ancestors.
 
Rydeen said:
The prophecy is for sure a metaphor. I used to think that it was talking about Lan Di, as the dragon rising from the earth, casting the heavens into darkness, and Shenhua as the phoenix, descending with a trail of violet in its wake. It might be pulling double (triple?) duty, though.
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Id always assumed that the Dragon in the prophecy was Lan Di (the azure dragon), but thinking about it, it’s possible that the prophecy is actually talking about Tentei (the yellow dragon). I might be reading a little too much into it, but the element associated with the yellow dragon is earth (a dragon shall rise from the earth) whilst the element associated with the Azure Dragon is Wood. Plus in Chinese mythology, the yellow Emporer (who the yellow dragon is said to be the zoomorphic incarnation of) is the person who ordered the beheading of Chiyou.
Rydeen said:
I'm pretty sure Suzuki mentioned in one of the Shenmue Masters interviews that Shenhua is legitimately 16 years old, and not immortal, or anything. In the Kickstarter interview with Miyawaki, he mentioned that the original design request for Shenhua was for a Tibetan girl. So, I tend to think that Shenhua is meant to be the reincarnation of a historically prophetic figure, like the Dalai Lama, for instance. This would explain why she has memories of her ancestors.
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Possible, although as with Zimming, I have my doubts as to whether everything we’ve been told should be taken as gospel - not only due to the possibility of changes - but also as it’s in Yu’s best interest to keep people from guessing where the story is heading.
 
tomboz said:
Possible, although as with Zimming, I have my doubts as to whether everything we’ve been told should be taken as gospel - not only due to the possibility of changes - but also as it’s in Yu’s best interest to keep people from guessing where the story is heading.
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Yeah, I also have my doubts about Ziming; I mean just looking at the guy at the far left of that chapter card illustration, I find it a little hard to believe that isn't Ziming as an adult. So, that's fair. We potentially don't really know. I do think that a big reason Shenhua isn't actually a Tibetan girl has to do with how that would have been received in the Chinese market. Depending on how much YSNet continues to try to break in to the Chinese market, I think what elements of the story ultimately stick could be somewhat up in the air. (i.e. Even if Shenhua had been meant to be the reincarnation of some spiritual figure, that could be changed in order to not upset the CCP.)

That's my head-canon for the time being, anyway, that Shenhua is the reincarnation of a Tibetan bodhisattva, kind of like the kid in the first human period of Terranigma.
 
24Nathan said:
Actually, in the same interview where Yu claims that Ziming is not a leader, he says the files on the mountain are specifically not Chiyoumen, but rather grandmasters.
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Rydeen said:
The facial hair doesn't match, though. That one has a full beard, while the one in the chapter card illustration just has a long mustache ("fu manchu"). Seems like his beard is intended to be grey, as well. Also, his prayer beads are much larger.

I really think, given the Shaolin Temple connections, he's the abbot of the temple (whether or not it's actually called the Shaolin Temple, in the game--which I imagine it won't be). He's dressed just like an abbot of the Shaolin temple:

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chinese-kungfu-star-tv-contest-held-at-shaolin-temple.jpg
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If you look closely, you can see that he even has the loop tying together his red sash.



Supposedly those are actually the Bajiquan Grand Masters, which would make sense, considering the location. Perhaps that monk character is one of the bajiquan grand masters, though.


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Also, neither of the other two CYM leaders appear to be bald. It looks to me as though the man dressed in white might fit the silhouette on the left. Which suggests to me that the northern boss is the one on the right.
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Those are some great points. If those figures on the mountains are grand masters, then perhaps we can assume the monk with the full beard and staff will train Ryo? The supposed Chiyou monk leader is probably the antagonist in that particular area where the monk temple is located.

On the other hand, Rydeen has a good point. The Chiyou silhouette picture doesn't show the monk leader. His outfit could possibly be unique like Niao Sun with her hat, so its hard to tell.

The Edward Scissor hands leader definitely looks like the guy on the right of the silhouette pic

tomboz said:
Niao Sun, Zimming and Lan Di?
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Nah, it looks like young girls in the pic
 
Is it possible that Xianzi Bei is one of the Bajiquan grandmasters from that Chapter Tile? Or is it to be considered that we still haven't met them in the series yet? He does teach Ryo the Reverse Body Check which is an alternate version of the Body Check which Su says is kinda a big deal move in Bajiquan?
I believe at one point Yu-san said in an interview I believe that Shenmue 3 has elements from future chapters without actually going into them (unless im misremembering which happens cause my memory sucks).
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tomboz said:
Niao Sun, Zimming and Lan Di?
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That would be so amazing. Sadly, it does look like they’re girls. The kids all have their hair done up in buns, though, and all three of those characters have long(-ish) hair, so—.


shengoro86 said:
Is it possible that Xianzi Bei is one of the Bajiquan grandmasters from that Chapter Tile? Or is it to be considered that we still haven't met them in the series yet? He does teach Ryo the Reverse Body Check which is an alternate version of the Body Check which Su says is kinda a big deal move in Bajiquan?
I believe at one point Yu-san said in an interview I believe that Shenmue 3 has elements from future chapters without actually going into them (unless im misremembering which happens cause my memory sucks).
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I don’t recall exactly offhand, but I believe Bei was a master of Nanken (don’t remember how this is pronounced in Chinese—Nanquan?).

Although I don’t think it’s all that likely, it would be kind of interesting if Xiuying turned out to also be one of the grand masters.
 
Rydeen said:
I don’t recall exactly offhand, but I believe Bei was a master of Nanken (don’t remember how this is pronounced in Chinese—Nanquan?).

Although I don’t think it’s all that likely, it would be kind of interesting if Xiuying turned out to also be one of the grand masters.
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She is reffered to by Master Chen as an Elder Master but I'm guessing that's english dub shenanigans and not cannon. I don't recall off the top of my head what he refers to her as in the japanese original dub.
 
shengoro86 said:
She is reffered to by Master Chen as an Elder Master but I'm guessing that's english dub shenanigans and not cannon. I don't recall off the top of my head what he refers to her as in the japanese original dub.
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Oh, that’s a good point, he says “roushi,” (老師). I’ve noticed some people calling Feng a “grand master,” though, and he is also referred to as “roushi” in Japanese.
 
My assumption (obviously, not correct) is that those 4 masters will teach Ryo in that chapter card and that we haven't run into them yet.

If it is spread out to 4 different masters in different chapters however, that's pretty cool too.
 
shengoro86 said:
I love the discussion on this btw. Feels like 2004 Dojo all over again haha.
I really hope one day we get to finish the series and put all these questions to rest so that we can finally have a bible of shenmue information.
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Maybe after the main story gets finished there will be enough room for some spin off games to use ideas that went unused.
When I say spin off, I mean a Shenmue game where Ryo isn't the main character.
 
I think Xiuying might just be considered a Grandmaster. She's clearly important enough to the story that she reappears again in the very final VFRPG chapter card if you look closely.

My theory is that unlike more minor teachers Ryo has encountered on his quest like, say, the homeless guy in Shenmue 1 who teaches you that dodge move and then runs like a twat the moment he's attacked by bikers, the Grandmasters are those special teachers Ryo meets on his journey that he spends a greater amount of time with who more profoundly help him evolve into the Bajiquan fighter he's destined to be. For instance, notice that both masters teach Ryo a Bajiquan technique: Lishao Tao teaches him the Counter Elbow Assault, and Xianzi Bei teaches him the Reverse Body Check. Both of these techniques are distinguished from the rest of the moves Ryo learns as being important because Ryo needs these moves to overcome a powerful opponent that blocks his path.

Bajiquan move 1 - Counter Elbow Assault
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Bajiquan move 2 - Reverse Body Check
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Bajiquan move 3 - ???
Bajiquan move 4 - ???

Once Ryo learns all four moves from all four Grandmasters, this will trigger his final evolution into a Bajiquan expert.

Perhaps the 8th chapter card art is really saying is that at this particular point in the story Ryo combines all the lessons that these instructors imparted to him during his quest which completes his training and he is now ready to take on the Chi You Men. Perhaps the Grandmasters are scattered across the storyline as follows:

Chapter 2 - Hong Kong: Grandmaster Lishao Tao
Chapter 6 - Niaowu: Grandmaster Xianzi Bei
Chapter 7 - ???
Chapter 8 - ???

This is all my speculation of course. Yu Suzuki might still intend to cram four brand new Bajiquan experts in the 8th chapter, though I think I prefer the idea of them being scattered across the overall story as it would make Ryo's quest from Hong Kong to Mengcun more meaningful.
 
I only hope that yu Suzuki wiil not change the story and he wiil continues with the shenmue 4,5 and maybe 6 I don't know, the only thing that I want to see is the true story of shenmue complete one day and I mean the original story as represent in the chapters pictures I really hope that in the next shenmue to see also baisha such a shame that was cut from shenmue 3
 
dnlandi said:
I only hope that yu Suzuki wiil not change the story and he wiil continues with the shenmue 4,5 and maybe 6 I don't know, the only thing that I want to see is the true story of shenmue complete one day and I mean the original story as represent in the chapters pictures I really hope that in the next shenmue to see also baisha such a shame that was cut from shenmue 3
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I don't think there is a 'true story', like 20 years ago, putting so many chapters in Shenmue 2 which felt like Suzuki was compressing chapters.

Also the newer details

The mirror was a 'legendary monster', then it's a treasure map, but there's a map in the bell tower anyway.

The mirrors were ancient, then suddenly they're about 100 years old. Shenhua sees the north star, suggesting Yuan died but they bring him in it anyway.

Flying sword disappears from the cave scene, like the magical tone is being changed to something more subdued.

Not trying to shit on it though, I just rather see them try and prioritize a good story, rather than worrying about purism or a true one
 
Yeah the final Shenmue story we will end up getting will differ slightly from the VFRPG outline that was penned in the 90s with an entirely different franchise (Virtua Fighter) in mind. Parts of the story have already been tweaked through the natural creative process as early as Shenmue 2 where Ryo was originally meant to hop on a train and visit Suzhou at some point before arriving at Guilin. Instead, now he visits a water town in Shenmue 3 in the form of Niaowu.

Not keeping 100% to the original plan is also not automatically a bad thing if certain less effective things could be cut. Take for instance the Boat chapter that was cut from Shenmue 2. People spent years fantasising about how epic that chapter might have been. Then finally in 2020 we get repurposed events from that chapter in the form of The Big Merry Cruise DLC and...it was kind of, well...ehhh? I can definitely see why it was cut back in 2001.
 
Rydeen said:
That would be so amazing. Sadly, it does look like they’re girls. The kids all have their hair done up in buns, though, and all three of those characters have long(-ish) hair, so—.
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Looking at them a bit more closely, I’d say that only the one on the right looks completely feminine. I think the face on the one in the center could be that of a male and the one on the left has incredibly broad shoulders for a female.

As for the hairstyles being feminine, this could be connected with the tradition of wearing one’s hair in a top bun as per the traditions of Daoism.

The hair is tied in a single bun at the top of one’s head at a special acupuncture point called Baihu.

Traditionally, the topknot was reserved for those who had been accepted as a disciple in a Daoist lineage. Typically when a person first entered a temple, they had to complete a probation period of about three years. During this period, they would be given odd jobs while the members of the temple got to know them. They would stop cutting their hair. After three years, they could be accepted as a disciple. If accepted, there would be a discipleship ritual. During the ritual, their master would put up the disciple’s hair in a topknot for the first time, and the disciple would be given a set of the master’s old robes to wear.
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That they have 2 buns at the sides could be seen as a sign that at this point they are still in early training and thus aren’t worthy of wearing their hair in the single topknot yet.

As they all had long hair before their training began and as some see hair as being a gift from the parents...
The body, hair and skin, all have been received from the parents, and so one doesn’t dare damage them—that is the beginning of xiao.
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... it would make sense that orphans like Zimming and Lan Di would not want to cut their hair and would continue to grow it out even before completing their probationary periods.
 
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