Were you happier with no Shenmue III? Or do you prefer living in a post-Shenmue III world?

[spud1897]

I found the entirety of Bailu to be illogical. The whole experience in the village was nothing but poorly written and planned out game logic.

Depends on how you look at it.

We found out more about Iwao and the mirrors. I'd have liked more on the prophecy stuff but that's a personal issue.

The village itself is neatly presented and some villagers fun to talk to.

The invisible walls I could do without

 

[Godokunodan]

It would help if you were actually there at the ground floor when Yu Suzuki first pitched Shenmue series to the public during the outset. He said. The Shenmue series would be " episodic" Shenmue III was an awesome episode of a tv series. I don't see the problem here. Too many current gamers hear the word " open world "and their head goes into wild speculation mode. Automatically thinking they are going to get a 200 hour game for $60 . Hate to break it to you but $60 isn't a whole lot of money these days, folks.

 

[Thomasina]

It would help if you were actually there at the ground floor when Yu Suzuki first pitched Shenmue series to the public during the outset. He said. The Shenmue series would be " episodic" Shenmue III was an awesome episode of a tv series. I don't see the problem here. Too many current gamers hear the word " open world "and their head goes into wild speculation mode. Automatically thinking they are going to get a 200 hour game for $60 . Hate to break it to you but $60 isn't a whole lot of money these days, folks.
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Hope you're not talking about me because I had no expectations of an enormous open world. I just wanted what was there to make sense.

 

[xatruio]

... If the loss of focus continues and the grande scope of the story seems to be tossed aside for a life sim-lite...

So by grand scale you're only referring to the story or also the world...?

Shenmue has always been both a grand overall story and detailed small/medium/large world and life-simulator of the mundane minutia. Ch1 was small world slow start then quicker toward end; Shen2 was huge and epic until disc four; Shen3 was hybrid (overall medium size combining both cities) world and mostly slow burn until very end. Seems to be a pattern... an easily deduced pattern before Three released or even during the dark ages before E3 '15 announcement.

 

[Thomasina]

So by grand scale you're only referring to the story or also the world...?

The story in its entirety. The mirrors.

 

[Yokosuka]

Shen3 was hybrid (overall medium size combining both cities)

Likely one of the problems of S3. Bailu is not built with its own logic. It's like the Shenmue 2 structure was lazily scaled to the village. The focus on classic mini games has obviously altered the design in the wrong sense as YSnet felt obligated to put the suitable engineering to support the mechanics (e.g. the fortuneteller).

If Deep Silver came into the project from the beginning, I believe all this fetichist stuff would have been saved for Niaowu, and I bet fans would have been more enthusiastic about their experience in the city.
For Yu, Bailu would have been the place for his sociological innovations and give Shenmue 3 its very own taste like S1 and S2 did have their own flavor.

But since Bailu was the priority in the design planning, YSnet probably thought it was safer to implement all the classic stuff in the first location and be sure to please fans before they run out of time and money, despite all the coherence problems it would imply.

As a result, Bailu was a place neither believable nor interesting in my experience. I'm currently replaying S3 for the first time since months and my opinion about the game only gets worse, combat apart.

 

[xatruio]

Actually what i meant as Bailu was small, which it is not much bigger than Yokosuka, and Niaowu is large, about the size of Wan Chai. Put them together, then the overall game I deem medium for not being quite as big as Aberdeen+Wan Chai+Kowloon.

 

[Nathanial Essex]

Shenmue is a big part of my life and one of the few things, if not the only thing, from my past that I'm longing for a resolution. I feel pretty much the same as I did before Shenmue III was announced. Prior to the announcement I had little hope that we would get a third game and the little hope I had was mixed with fear that a third game would be released without a proper remake of the previous two games.

That happened, and some. Game was released without a proper remake of the original titles which pretty much guaranteed a lot of gamers wouldn't purchase it. Then you just had everything else from the poor marketing, so-called gaming journalist having their knives out before they even played it and overall a very mediocre game from a neutral perspective.

So my feeling is back to where it was initially. That being I have little hope that we'll get a 4th game and even if we do, there would be too few people interested to make it commercially viable. That's why I just want the story to conclude at the soonest opportunity.

 

[Tsukuyomimagi99]

Likely one of the problems of S3. Bailu is not built with its own logic. It's like the Shenmue 2 structure was lazily scaled to the village. The focus on classic mini games has obviously altered the design in the wrong sense as YSnet felt obligated to put the suitable engineering to support the mechanics (e.g. the fortuneteller).

I agree with your opinion for the most part. After Shenhua's explanation about Bailu Village in Shenmue II, I was under the impression that Bailu was an isolated village. In Shenmue III however, Bailu comes across more as a mountain town. It's one thing to have a few modern conveniences, it's another to have a modern arcade, gacha machines, and gambling stands. I do think however, that herb collecting, wood chopping, fishing, and the farmers market make perfect sense.

If anything, I wish Shenmue III expanded on these activities and dovetailed them into the narrative. You could add minigames such as hunting, making medicine, cooking, embroidery, building a home, on top of your martial arts training. As you do more for the village, the more events you trigger such as clearing out that landslide in Shenmue II.

As you complete more events, the more likely that key characters like Elder Yeh and Master Feng will reveal more history on the mirrors, Iwao's training, the prophecy, and so on. In other words, the more intimate a relationship you form with the village, the more they give back to you.

Bailu Village should have been a time for Ryo to truly heal, contemplate, and grow as a character. Sadly that was not the case as the game rushed us into Niaowu (Where admittedly arcade games, gambling, and gacha machines make more sense.) And making Bailu feel more like a town instead of a village, made Shenhua feel more like an outlier than a natural resident.

 

[Godokunodan]

I agree with your opinion for the most part. After Shenhua's explanation about Bailu Village in Shenmue II, I was under the impression that Bailu was an isolated village. In Shenmue III however, Bailu comes across more as a mountain town. It's one thing to have a few modern conveniences, it's another to have a modern arcade, gacha machines, and gambling stands. I do think however, that herb collecting, wood chopping, fishing, and the farmers market make perfect sense.

If anything, I wish Shenmue III expanded on these activities and dovetailed them into the narrative. You could add minigames such as hunting, making medicine, cooking, embroidery, building a home, on top of your martial arts training. As you do more for the village, the more events you trigger such as clearing out that landslide in Shenmue II.

As you complete more events, the more likely that key characters like Elder Yeh and Master Feng will reveal more history on the mirrors, Iwao's training, the prophecy, and so on. In other words, the more intimate a relationship you form with the village, the more they give back to you.

Bailu Village should have been a time for Ryo to truly heal, contemplate, and grow as a character. Sadly that was not the case as the game rushed us into Niaowu (Where admittedly arcade games, gambling, and gacha machines make more sense). And making Bailu feel more a town instead of a village, made Shenhua feel more like an outlier than a natural resident.

Omg. Its freaking China. Of course the have bootleg videogames. It's not the Jetsons. Its still a rural village. They are not Amish, ok, of course they have electricity. Gatcha machines are modern? According to who? Those things have been at around since the 1950's. I don't know about you, but those Bailu videogames didn't exactly blow me away.

 

[Tsukuyomimagi99]

Omg. Its freaking China. Of course the have bootleg videogames. It's not the Jetsons. Its still a rural village. They are not Amish, ok, of course they have electricity. Gatcha machines are modern? According to who? Those things have been at around since the 1950's. I don't know about you, but those Bailu videogames didn't exactly blow me away.

I clearly stated in my post that it makes sense for them to have a few modern conveniences. My entire post was not about whether Bailu villagers lived like the Amish, it's whether those things make sense given the setting. Why would a company establish a gambling parlor, gacha machines, or an arcade in an isolated village when there is very little payoff? That's not even getting into the logistics of getting all that up the mountains in the first place.

If Shenhua had provided an explanation for all of this in Shenmue II, I would concede the point. However once again, the context provided to me in Shenmue II is inconsistent with Shenmue III. It's quite apparent it was done for the sake of fanservice and nothing more.

I am not against these minigames existing, but they could've been saved for Niaowu where they would make more sense. Then you could have a diverse set of minigames.

 

[GhostTrick]

Omg. Its freaking China. Of course the have bootleg videogames. It's not the Jetsons. Its still a rural village. They are not Amish, ok, of course they have electricity. Gatcha machines are modern? According to who? Those things have been at around since the 1950's. I don't know about you, but those Bailu videogames didn't exactly blow me away.

According to the kids you meet when your arrive in Guilin in Shenmue II. And yes, according to Shenhua's words in II and her house in II, Bailu is supposed to be an isolated village. Not one with arcades nor a place with games. Not one with gacha collections and prize exchange. It's a fair criticism to say that Bailu was changed abd influenced by the game design in a way that isn't good.

 

[code l name]

I agree with your opinion for the most part. After Shenhua's explanation about Bailu Village in Shenmue II, I was under the impression that Bailu was an isolated village. In Shenmue III however, Bailu comes across more as a mountain town. It's one thing to have a few modern conveniences, it's another to have a modern arcade, gacha machines, and gambling stands. I do think however, that herb collecting, wood chopping, fishing, and the farmers market make perfect sense.

If anything, I wish Shenmue III expanded on these activities and dovetailed them into the narrative. You could add minigames such as hunting, making medicine, cooking, embroidery, building a home, on top of your martial arts training. As you do more for the village, the more events you trigger such as clearing out that landslide in Shenmue II.

As you complete more events, the more likely that key characters like Elder Yeh and Master Feng will reveal more history on the mirrors, Iwao's training, the prophecy, and so on. In other words, the more intimate a relationship you form with the village, the more they give back to you.

Bailu Village should have been a time for Ryo to truly heal, contemplate, and grow as a character. Sadly that was not the case as the game rushed us into Niaowu (Where admittedly arcade games, gambling, and gacha machines make more sense). And making Bailu feel more like a town instead of a village, made Shenhua feel more like an outlier than a natural resident.

I don’t pretend to know the games development history but some of us speculated based on KS updates and most recent Suzuki interview Bailu was first area of game worked on. Before getting Deep Silver funding and additional development time they put in activities and items they were not sure they could flesh out or incorporate when Niaowu was much simpler.

I think if they knew eventual scope and budget they would get from the beginning I wouldn’t be surprised if the activities dovetailed into the environment more seamlessly as you suggested, I even remember Suzuki talking about a quest involving an animal, which sounded like they had programmed so I was surprised when even that was missing.

Based on the very early interviews I think many of us thought the reputation system would have a much more prominent role and have tangible effects as you suggested. I see those sort of avenues as potential for Shenmue 4 to distinguish itself. It doesn’t need to compete with large open world games but have meaningful systems and choices which effect gameplay and create increased depth. Here’s hoping.

 

[spud1897]

According to the kids you meet when your arrive in Guilin in Shenmue II. And yes, according to Shenhua's words in II and her house in II, Bailu is supposed to be an isolated village. Not one with arcades nor a place with games. Not one with gacha collections and prize exchange. It's a fair criticism to say that Bailu was changed abd influenced by the game design in a way that isn't good.

Depends how you look at it.

I agree its not what was sold in Shenmue II in terms of isolation but in terms of the look and feel (arcade and joy park aside) it is what was advertised in Shenmue II.

I wouldn't say the design made it that much worse but we can all agree (me included) that we expected a more isolated/rudimentary village. However, for me, Bailu is still a great place to be.

 

[RyoHazuki84]

For better or worse, I couldn't live without any continuation of Shenmue. I accept in big stories, there are instances where they take a pause and don't progress and I anticipated that with just about any installment of Shenmue.

 

[spud1897]

Omg. Its freaking China. Of course the have bootleg videogames. It's not the Jetsons. Its still a rural village. They are not Amish, ok, of course they have electricity. Gatcha machines are modern? According to who? Those things have been at around since the 1950's. I don't know about you, but those Bailu videogames didn't exactly blow me away.

Let's calm down. No need to jump down the persons throat.

 

[spud1897]

I agree with your opinion for the most part. After Shenhua's explanation about Bailu Village in Shenmue II, I was under the impression that Bailu was an isolated village. In Shenmue III however, Bailu comes across more as a mountain town. It's one thing to have a few modern conveniences, it's another to have a modern arcade, gacha machines, and gambling stands. I do think however, that herb collecting, wood chopping, fishing, and the farmers market make perfect sense.

If anything, I wish Shenmue III expanded on these activities and dovetailed them into the narrative. You could add minigames such as hunting, making medicine, cooking, embroidery, building a home, on top of your martial arts training. As you do more for the village, the more events you trigger such as clearing out that landslide in Shenmue II.

As you complete more events, the more likely that key characters like Elder Yeh and Master Feng will reveal more history on the mirrors, Iwao's training, the prophecy, and so on. In other words, the more intimate a relationship you form with the village, the more they give back to you.

Bailu Village should have been a time for Ryo to truly heal, contemplate, and grow as a character. Sadly that was not the case as the game rushed us into Niaowu (Where admittedly arcade games, gambling, and gacha machines make more sense). And making Bailu feel more like a town instead of a village, made Shenhua feel more like an outlier than a natural resident.

I like this thought. My query lies in whether this was in the original plan or not. Did Yu balance fan service and new ideas or was it a case of these being more expensive so dropped?

 

[ShenSun]

To each their own, but bailu was amazing for me and im glad they put arcades and games there. It made it more enjoyable and gave us more options to spend our time. Im sure i recall suzuki even saying making it too realistic is boring which i agree. Plus i doubt the everyday gamer would even make it to niaowu if the arcade games were soley there. It was the right call.

Personally i think the issues with the ending, story and character development has led people to criticise every aspect of the game. If the game had Baisha and was fleshed out to its original vision, im sure ppl would appreciate the build up more. When the series is all said and done i think people will appreciate shenmue 3 more. It was a nice cozy experience and sets the stage perfectly for Shenmue 4

For me, Bailu is one of my favorite areas in the entire series. Niaowu not so much, but i may enjoy it more now if i replay it with all the dlc.

Personally i think even if Shenmue 4 did everything right and was better than shenmue 1 and 2, there would be still be people moaning and complaining. Suzuki just needs to make Shenmue 4 and 5 the way he wants to and just throw it out there and move on. Those who enjoy it wil enjoy it, those who wont enjoy it, wont enjoy it.

 

[spud1897]

Personally i think even if Shenmue 4 did everything right and was better than shenmue 1 and 2, there would be still be people moaning and complaining. Suzuki just needs to make Shenmue 4 and 5 the way he wants to and just throw it out there and move on. Those who enjoy it wil enjoy it, those who wont enjoy it, wont enjoy it.

This is such a true statement!

 

[Sergeynest]

To each their own, but bailu was amazing for me and im glad they put arcades and games there. It made it more enjoyable and gave us more options to spend our time. Im sure i recall suzuki even saying making it too realistic is boring which i agree. Plus i doubt the everyday gamer would even make it to niaowu if the arcade games were soley there. It was the right call.

Personally i think the issues with the ending, story and character development has led people to criticise every aspect of the game. If the game had Baisha and was fleshed out to its original vision, im sure ppl would appreciate the build up more. When the series is all said and done i think people will appreciate shenmue 3 more. It was a nice cozy experience and sets the stage perfectly for Shenmue 4

For me, Bailu is one of my favorite areas in the entire series. Niaowu not so much, but i may enjoy it more now if i replay it with all the dlc.

Personally i think even if Shenmue 4 did everything right and was better than shenmue 1 and 2, there would be still be people moaning and complaining. Suzuki just needs to make Shenmue 4 and 5 the way he wants to and just throw it out there and move on. Those who enjoy it wil enjoy it, those who wont enjoy it, wont enjoy it.

What you said is very true and I agree with all that you said; but just imagine what we could have gotten out of Shenmue 3 if all the effort that was put into the DLC's and the filler was put on to more meaningfull stuff like the story and the side characters.
I could just wonder !?