Where U think the source of Haters originated from???

spud1897 said:
@iknifaugood right website wrong review, though I had to search to find it.

It was this one: https://www.usgamer.net/articles/shenmue-3-cant-help-betraying-the-spirit-of-the-original-game

This one riled a tonne of people.
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This seems to be a poorly articulated article but if the main point was that Shenmue used to be a forward-thinking, boundary pushing series on the bleed edge of technology and now it's a backwards looking nostalgia fueled novelty, then I can kind of hear that criticism. But just kind of. That's the sort of thing that's tied much closer to budget, no one was expecting S3 to be the look into the future that S1 and 2 were for their time.

Where once Shenmue was awe-inspiring, now it's just a novelty that plays on nostalgia for the original. A handful of fans will love it; many more will buy Shenmue 3 out of curiosity, raise an eyebrow, then quit. It's a shame, because it feels like there's hidden potential here for a really different open-world experience. Instead, all we've got is a memory of what Shenmue once meant to games. Too bad.
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This starts out making sense and then it just eats its own logic. So Shenmue used to mean something to games but what it meant is now dated, now Shenmue 3 means what Shenmue used to mean but that betrays what Shenmue actually meant.
 
iknifaugood said:
This seems to be a poorly articulated article but if the main point was that Shenmue used to be a forward-thinking, boundary pushing series on the bleed edge of technology and now it's a backwards looking nostalgia fueled novelty, then I can kind of hear that criticism. But just kind of. That's the sort of thing that's tied much closer to budget, no one was expecting S3 to be the look into the future that S1 and 2 were for their time.


This starts out making sense and then it just eats its own logic. So Shenmue used to mean something to games but what it meant is now dated, now Shenmue 3 means what Shenmue used to mean but that betrays what Shenmue actually meant.
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Exactly, it's incoherent. People are welcome to not like Shenmue but people still respect it for what it brought to the table. Now Shenmue III was never going to be ground-breaking and holding a budget Kickstarter title on the same threshold as the originals, as much as I enjoy Shenmue III, is an unfair comparison.
 
spud1897 said:
Exactly, it's incoherent. People are welcome to not like Shenmue but people still respect it for what it brought to the table. Now Shenmue III was never going to be ground-breaking and holding a budget Kickstarter title on the same threshold as the originals, as much as I enjoy Shenmue III, is an unfair comparison.
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its ridiculous and she makes assumptions based on no evidence whatsoever. did someone mention she had to retract something at some point? All I see is a deleted comment made by her in the comments section.
 
Lot of haters were fans of the past games and don't quite like the final product delivered Shenmue 3. There is a lot to hate about Shenmue 3 unfortunately but the first two games were masterpieces.
 
IzOfHeavens said:
Lot of haters were fans of the past games and don't quite like the final product delivered Shenmue 3. There is a lot to hate about Shenmue 3 unfortunately but the first two games were masterpieces.
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There's also plenty to like about Shenmue III. The environments, music (in some places) mini-games and actually some of the cutscenes are very well done, espeically in Bailu.

Yes the story/character development wasn't what many felt it should be but there's things that they did do well too.

Care to elaborate on your point?
 
spud1897 said:
There's also plenty to like about Shenmue III. The environments, music (in some places) mini-games and actually some of the cutscenes are very well done, espeically in Bailu.

Yes the story/character development wasn't what many felt it should be but there's things that they did do well too.

Care to elaborate on your point?
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For me, I loved the graphics and cut scenes. I felt the cut scenes got really good whenever Ren was involved. I hope Shenmue 4 is kind of a "buddy cop" style adventure with Ren always around for comic relief.

The thing's I hated were:

How weak Ryo feels in this game compared to 2: I know this a new game but it takes places minutes after the last one ended. I wouldn't mind the sudden nerf if the story could explain it somehow.
If I were writing the story id explain it this way: Ryo slips(or gets attacked) and injured in the cave. Due to his injuries, he has to rest a month or two where his stamina and fighting ability degrades. During that time Shenhua and her father could care for him THEN Shenhua's father would get kidnapped by the thugs. At this point Ryo might know more about the mirror and have an emotional connection to Shenhua and dad. The injury arc could even be playable where Ryo tries to train or something.
Similar to how Yakuza nerfed explained Kiryu's nerfing by putting him in jail for 10 years. But for Ryo, a month or two could be enough time.

The battle system: felt very stiff and sluggish. I thought maybe once Ryo levels up his "kung fu" stat he'll move more fluidly and quicker but nope. The whole game was a slow button mash fest with delayed inputs. Being able to grab and throw enemies into each other would have been great. The entire physics of fighting could have been better honestly.

The story progression: the two areas were nearly identical with you having a ton of run back and forth quests where you eventually meet a big guy who beats you up and the only way to beat him was to have an old master teach you the body check. Both also have a segment with a huge pay wall forcing you to play mini games and "work" to pay for the move that would allow you learn how to be the giant. I was pretty upset when the move Ryo learns to beat Mr Muscles was just "reverse body check"... Which looks identical to the body check used to defeat the first red giant 🤦‍♂️
I don't understand how a body check is somehow effective against 6 foot tall kung fu hulks considering they're at least 300 lbs of solid muscle while Ryo is maybe 150 at most. The special attack to beat them should have been something targeting a pressure point maybe.


Other quick things I disliked are: long-winded NPC's with unskippable dialog, identical shops everywhere selling completely useless items, the stamina system, lack of meaningful side quests.
 
IzOfHeavens said:
During that time Shenhua and her father could care for him THEN Shenhua's father would get kidnapped by the thugs.
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How would this work without a HUGE retcon to Shenmue II's ending? Her father was already missing and he wrote Shenhua a letter implying that he might die. If they just found him hanging out behind a rock after the giant mirror carvings were revealed, then the whole "find Shenhua's kidnapped father" story arc would feel really pointless and redundant.

IzOfHeavens said:
I don't understand how a body check is somehow effective against 6 foot tall kung fu hulks considering they're at least 300 lbs of solid muscle while Ryo is maybe 150 at most. The special attack to beat them should have been something targeting a pressure point maybe.
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I have no idea how accurate this is, but I tend to trust Yu Suzuki since he's friends with an actual Bajiquan master and did so much research for Virtua Fighter that he was inspired to create Shenmue in the first place.
 
B-Man said:
How would this work without a HUGE retcon to Shenmue II's ending? Her father was already missing and he wrote Shenhua a letter implying that he might die. If they just found him hanging out behind a rock after the giant mirror carvings were revealed, then the whole "find Shenhua's kidnapped father" story arc would feel really pointless and redundant.


I have no idea how accurate this is, but I tend to trust Yu Suzuki since he's friends with an actual Bajiquan master and did so much research for Virtua Fighter that he was inspired to create Shenmue in the first place.
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totally slipped my mind he was missing in shenmue 2 as well but ehh.

The bodycheck would work better as a move to at least knock big guys off balance a bit to open up for a clean hit somewhere. In real life, guys that muscular probably deadlift hundreds of pounds and thus have a thick layer of muscle on their backs. They are not going to be KO'd by a body check to the back unless has the force of a speeding car within him.... or if Ryo Bodychecked Mr Muscles to send him tumbling down the stairs of the castle.

The Counter Elbow Assault would realistically be most damaging.
 
IzOfHeavens said:
totally slipped my mind he was missing in shenmue 2 as well but ehh.

The bodycheck would work better as a move to at least knock big guys off balance a bit to open up for a clean hit somewhere. In real life, guys that muscular probably deadlift hundreds of pounds and thus have a thick layer of muscle on their backs. They are not going to be KO'd by a body check to the back unless has the force of a speeding car within him.... or if Ryo Bodychecked Mr Muscles to send him tumbling down the stairs of the castle.

The Counter Elbow Assault would realistically be most damaging.
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Guess you've never played VF...

As usual, when people are asked to speak about flaws with the game, they post nitpicky BS that THEY DON'T LIKE and are not actual flaws.

We get it, you don't like the game, but there absolutely is NOT, "a lot to hate about III."
 
Truck_1_0_1_ said:
Guess you've never played VF...

As usual, when people are asked to speak about flaws with the game, they post nitpicky BS that THEY DON'T LIKE and are not actual flaws.

We get it, you don't like the game, but there absolutely is NOT, "a lot to hate about III."
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I've played Virtua Fighter and honesty disliked it every time I tried a new iteration. I've always been a Tekken fan growing up. VF is too stiff for my liking despite it being the most "realistic" of the big 3D Fighters.

Also, what does VF have to do with whether or not the body check would realistically KO a giant? It simply wouldn't work in real life but the explosive elbow attacks would.
 
That's my point; the Body Check by Akira takes off a shit-ton of damage, if timed correctly.

Hence, Yu placed importance on it... not to mention, every time Akira does it in VF, it looks like he's discombobulated the opponent.
 
As a martial artist I experimented a similar tecnique, and I can say that you would totally be KO.
In chinese martial arts, it's not a matter of muscles, but destroying the opponent balance while transmitting the "shock wave" inside the enemy's body.
 
Truck_1_0_1_ said:
That's my point; the Body Check by Akira takes off a shit-ton of damage, if timed correctly.

Hence, Yu placed importance on it... not to mention, every time Akira does it in VF, it looks like he's discombobulated the opponent.
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If it's a powerful move in VF then I guess the emphasis on it in S3 makes sense. Although Akira is a much bigger guy than Ryo, is a MASTER bajiquan and regularly fights normal sized opponents so it'd make sensei how he wrecks people with it.

To someone who isn't a fan of VF it seems like a random choice of special move to defeat giants.
 
Suzaku said:
As a martial artist I experimented a similar tecnique, and I can say that you would totally be KO.
In chinese martial arts, it's not a matter of muscles, but destroying the opponent balance while transmitting the "shock wave" inside the enemy's body.
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It's just not realistic to think a 5'8 kid who just learned bajiquan could KO a 6'2 martial arts master with a bodycheck he just learned... Twice.
 
IzOfHeavens said:
It's just not realistic to think a 5'8 kid who just learned bajiquan could KO a 6'2 martial arts master with a bodycheck he just learned... Twice.
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It can take also 5-10 years to get the basics of internal martial arts. Bajiquan is classified as an external canonically, but even this style work with some of the same principles of Tai Chi and Xin Yi Liu He.
Of course we can't wait 10 in-game years for Ryo to graps the basics, plus even story tells us he is naturally talented, so don't focus on this thing too much :D
 
Suzaku said:
It can take also 5-10 years to get the basics of internal martial arts. Bajiquan is classified as an external canonically, but even this style work with some of the same principles of Tai Chi and Xin Yi Liu He.
Of course we can't wait 10 in-game years for Ryo to graps the basics, plus even story tells us he is naturally talented, so don't focus on this thing too much :D
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True, guess I'm looking at realism too hard 😅
I'm still bummed he needed learn the body check twice though haha
 
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