Where U think the source of Haters originated from???

[Gjb1985]

Nah, people have been hating on the first 2 games for years.

Source?

 

[mjqjazzbar]

Having a pulse and looking at various forums and magazines over the years. "Shenmue was always trash" is a common message around the internet. Here's an article on Vice:

Hold the ‘Shenmue 3’ Hype, Weren’t the Earlier Games Kinda Bad?

The reveal of "Shenmue 3" turned men into runny-eyed babies—but don't they remember how bad these games could be?

www.vice.com

Some fans don't like Shenmue 3, but the people who have no interest in Shenmue and think the new one looks like trash without even playing it are the same people who enjoyed and made videos like this:


Most of the non-fan criticism I've read is: "LOL THIS SHITTY GAME IS EXACTLY LIKE THE HORRIBLE DREAMCAST GAMES LMAO SAILORS!!!!,' not: "The plot is insubstantial and I wish they'd gone into Niao Sun's personality a little deeper! I'm also particularly disappointed Yu Suzuki could not include the Baisha siege encounter."

 

[spud1897]

Source?

A v v quick google: https://www.forbes.com/sites/mitchw...e-the-best-bad-game-of-all-time/#689e4206444c

8 Terrible Games That People Inexplicably Have Nostalgia For

Nostalgia is a powerful feeling: it can bring back happy memories, but it can also make us overlook some pretty egregious flaws in the things we have loved. Case in point: Here are eight games that were fairly lousy — but people insist on loving them anyway.

io9.gizmodo.com

Shenmue Fans Sure Are Crazy

We all know that video game fans can be a little... passionate. Fans of the adventure series Shenmue, though? They're straight-up insane.

kotaku.com

Forklift Balancer Is More Fun Than Shenmue

This is Forklift Balancer. It's a game on - wait for it - Geocities. And I'll be damned if it's not keeping me from working/eating today.

kotaku.com

The Shenmue Game Nobody Wanted Is Dead

Shenmue III, the unfulfilled third entry in the Shenmue saga, is the game fans really want. Fans did not get that game. Instead, they got Shenmue Town. Nobody wanted Shenmue Town. And now, it's dead.

kotaku.com

That's 3 Kotaku articles within a couple of mins

Was it Gamespot who had to change their score because so many kicked off?

E32015: https://kotaku.com/sony-is-helping-make-shenmue-iii-1711819045 and all the garbage about funding.

Nah there's been an agenda from some media outlets for years, to say there's not is plain ridiculous. Not all of them granted but there's a large number.

 

[mjqjazzbar]

Ironically, didn't Kotaku provide one of the better Shenmue 3 reviews?

 

[spud1897]

Ironically, didn't Kotaku provide one of the better Shenmue 3 reviews?

They did.

 

[pilman]

The hatred has always existed, I can't speak for Shenmue 1 but I do know when Shenmue II first came out, most of the hatred was coming from other Xbox gamers who felt the title shouldn't have been on the system. Most of the popular games at that time on Xbox outside of a few rpgs like Morrowind were mainly shooters like Halo, and those who were into sports games. The first Xbox really struggled badly in Japan and Shenmue II was not seen as graphically revolutionary at the time when it hit Xbox. The harshest reviews came from Gameinformer and Official Xbox Magazine and the demos they released were quite poor. Most of the criticism had to do with the voices and slow gameplay.

Keep in mind that during this time, GTA 3 had been out a year on Playstation 2 with hopes it would come to Xbox and so the idea of Shenmue being "open world" was not convincing for many Xbox players.

Microsoft barely marketed the game and I recall forums including the xbox forums bashing the game like it was a hobby.

I sum this up to the western market, during that time adventure games were in a huge decline where most westerners were more interested in online competition (xbox live was becoming a thing then), focus on high frag counts and competition with scores in sports games or racing games. Shenmue II did not take advantage of Xbox live and was a slow paced story driven game with side activities and I think this is what sparked much of the dislike towards the game that xbox players felt the game belonged on Playstation 2.

TechTV/G4 also ranked Shenmue as one of the worst games of all time criticizing the slow gameplay and voice acting which had a large influence over gamers who generally avoided games with below an 8.0 rating or anything that didn't fit the mainstream. The audience back then was much more unforgiving.

Fast forward to 2019, 18 years has passed, kids who never played the original and some things have changed such as the revitalization of PC gaming, adventure and telltale games are selling well, indy games like walking simulators are doing great, open world games have become a standard and single player games focused in Japan like Yakuza have become a hit so why the hatred towards Shenmue?

Shenmue is a well established franchise like Final Fantasy, and like FF, most of the fans are long time fans, people who don't get the games or understand them generally show no interest because it doesn't make sense to them. Shenmue fits many criteria yet also due to how much time has passed, few have given the older games a chance and jumping in becomes frustrating to them. I think some are expecting the fast paced adult languaged goofy mafia style of Yakuza and when they see it is not, they become angry and look down on Shenmue. I think RPG fans look down on it because it doesn't contain magical lore or fantasy or monsters, open world fans hate it because it doesn't fit into a true sandbox of full exploration, driving cars, flying, and running up mountains. Others may dislike it because the setting in China and they want something in a big city like NY or Los Angeles.

Shenmue is a game of it's own, and what it comes down to is a very vocal minority of haters, reviewers are pushing their subscribers to do the popular thing, hate Shenmue and it's fans for no other reason than to antagonize and to fit in with the new popular opinion. It is easy to hate because it probably generates more money to create controversy knowing that outrage will bring both sides to view those videos or websites.

 

[Budgiecat]

There is no hate agenda against shenmue. Only against shenmue 3

You can't seriously believe this. Were you watching E3 2015 after its announcement? When Kotaku and Polygon at E3 were making fun of the series, bashing it, and asking why would anyone want a continuation of it? Jeff Gerstmann's comments all these years on Shenmue? So many people citing frequently over and over how it was such a failure, some even going as far to say its the reason Sega abandoned the console business? (even though that couldn't be further from the truth), how so many Yakuza fans bash on it for years citing their series was the 'better replacement'? Same with GTA fans? Cmon bruh were have you been....in a cave for 18 years?

 

[Guangyan Wang]

The hatred has always existed, I can't speak for Shenmue 1 but I do know when Shenmue II first came out, most of the hatred was coming from other Xbox gamers who felt the title shouldn't have been on the system. Most of the popular games at that time on Xbox outside of a few rpgs like Morrowind were mainly shooters like Halo, and those who were into sports games. The first Xbox really struggled badly in Japan and Shenmue II was not seen as graphically revolutionary at the time when it hit Xbox. The harshest reviews came from Gameinformer and Official Xbox Magazine and the demos they released were quite poor. Most of the criticism had to do with the voices and slow gameplay.

Keep in mind that during this time, GTA 3 had been out a year on Playstation 2 with hopes it would come to Xbox and so the idea of Shenmue being "open world" was not convincing for many Xbox players.

Microsoft barely marketed the game and I recall forums including the xbox forums bashing the game like it was a hobby.

I sum this up to the western market, during that time adventure games were in a huge decline where most westerners were more interested in online competition (xbox live was becoming a thing then), focus on high frag counts and competition with scores in sports games or racing games. Shenmue II did not take advantage of Xbox live and was a slow paced story driven game with side activities and I think this is what sparked much of the dislike towards the game that xbox players felt the game belonged on Playstation 2.

TechTV/G4 also ranked Shenmue as one of the worst games of all time criticizing the slow gameplay and voice acting which had a large influence over gamers who generally avoided games with below an 8.0 rating or anything that didn't fit the mainstream. The audience back then was much more unforgiving.

Fast forward to 2019, 18 years has passed, kids who never played the original and some things have changed such as the revitalization of PC gaming, adventure and telltale games are selling well, indy games like walking simulators are doing great, open world games have become a standard and single player games focused in Japan like Yakuza have become a hit so why the hatred towards Shenmue?

Shenmue is a well established franchise like Final Fantasy, and like FF, most of the fans are long time fans, people who don't get the games or understand them generally show no interest because it doesn't make sense to them. Shenmue fits many criteria yet also due to how much time has passed, few have given the older games a chance and jumping in becomes frustrating to them. I think some are expecting the fast paced adult languaged goofy mafia style of Yakuza and when they see it is not, they become angry and look down on Shenmue. I think RPG fans look down on it because it doesn't contain magical lore or fantasy or monsters, open world fans hate it because it doesn't fit into a true sandbox of full exploration, driving cars, flying, and running up mountains. Others may dislike it because the setting in China and they want something in a big city like NY or Los Angeles.

Shenmue is a game of it's own, and what it comes down to is a very vocal minority of haters, reviewers are pushing their subscribers to do the popular thing, hate Shenmue and it's fans for no other reason than to antagonize and to fit in with the new popular opinion. It is easy to hate because it probably generates more money to create controversy knowing that outrage will bring both sides to view those videos or websites.

It was the Xbox version that got me into Shenmue in March 2004 when I was 14. Never played the games before and didn’t know much about them because I never owned a Dreamcast until 2010. I saw Shenmue 2 discounted and took a gamble. Little did I know I had brought the bargain of my life as it is now my all time favourite game. I shudder to think had I passed on the game; it could easily have happened. I for one am thankful it made it to the Xbox because otherwise I would have never known about Shenmue.

 

[Budgiecat]

the people who have no interest in Shenmue and think the new one looks like trash without even playing it are the same people who enjoyed and made videos like this:

Yeah these people help perpetuate the negativity towards this series which has been going on for years. So anyone curious as to what the series is, they might stumble onto something like this, might even think these guys are funny, and then decide not to look into the series themselves (because why think for yourself when social media thinks for you).

"Ryo is a pedophile" - really? Pedo jokes? smh....
"Shenmue 1 is a Japanese made game that makes fun of China" - what? The game takes place in Japan. "because of the stringy violiny Chinese music! See? They're making fun of China!" - what.. who are these assholes lol

 

[hmjohnny]

Sometimes I feel like this series is cursed. Maybe Suzuki lost a bet with the devil and now everything has to go wrong for him.

Honestly though, I think Shenmue 1 just failed to live up to its hype for most people. A lot of people bought Shenmue on hype alone. It was the touted as the Dreamcast killer app, state of the art graphics and interactivity, the advertisements were pretentious. It was on the cover of TV Guide, it was genre redefining etc. It wasn't a game but an "experience that transcends games".

Then it came out and it was a sort of mediocre RPG that had a lot of cool ideas but slow pace and more 'realism' that just turned a lot of people off. I think it's similar to something like Daikatana which was called the worst game ever made for a while. It's a mediocre shooter with some cool ideas that weren't fully implemented (team system) that just failed to live up to the hype. Everyone remembers the "John Romero is going to make you his bitch" campaign and when Daikatana wasn't the best game ever, everyone turned on it and destroyed it.

Jim Sterling compares it to Waterworld in his latest video. I think it's also a decent comparison, biggest budgeted film when it came out, overly hyped etc. Then we got another mediocre weird post apocalyptic Kevin Costner movie a la The Postman that just couldn't meet expectations.

When you tell people something is the best thing eva!!1! before you even show it to them, they go in wanting to hate it. Unless by some miracle it really is mind blowingly good, but it almost never is.

It also doesn't help that the English dub is just flat out bad half the time, leading to too many memeable moments like looking for sailors or having to drive forklifts for half the game.

 

[WildManofBorneo]

The majority of people who despise Shenmue hate it for the simple fact that they don't quite 'get' the cult status. And of course the best way to irk and troll the Shenmue cult is to berate their beloved.

It's like that Rocky Horror Picture Show cult following. I don't get it. If they made a game based on the film, I'd for certain want it to fail.

 

[Yokosuka]

Having a pulse and looking at various forums and magazines over the years. "Shenmue was always trash" is a common message around the internet. Here's an article on Vice:

Hold the ‘Shenmue 3’ Hype, Weren’t the Earlier Games Kinda Bad?

The reveal of "Shenmue 3" turned men into runny-eyed babies—but don't they remember how bad these games could be?

www.vice.com

Some fans don't like Shenmue 3, but the people who have no interest in Shenmue and think the new one looks like trash without even playing it are the same people who enjoyed and made videos like this:


Most of the non-fan criticism I've read is: "LOL THIS SHITTY GAME IS EXACTLY LIKE THE HORRIBLE DREAMCAST GAMES LMAO SAILORS!!!!,' not: "The plot is insubstantial and I wish they'd gone into Niao Sun's personality a little deeper! I'm also particularly disappointed Yu Suzuki could not include the Baisha siege encounter."

"Greatest game ever made"

So it implies that common sense and people in general are viewing Shenmue games as master pieces. I'm fine with it.

 

[Ren]

1) People have what is popular ex: Many people hate with a passion. Example Final Fantasy VII
2) Epic games Haters
3) Trolls. It's funny because many of them are part of the Shenmue fanbase. This goes way back into shenmuedojo 15+ years ago.

 

[Budgiecat]

Sometimes I feel like this series is cursed. Maybe Suzuki lost a bet with the devil and now everything has to go wrong for him.

Honestly though, I think Shenmue 1 just failed to live up to its hype for most people. A lot of people bought Shenmue on hype alone. It was the touted as the Dreamcast killer app, state of the art graphics and interactivity, the advertisements were pretentious. It was on the cover of TV Guide, it was genre redefining etc. It wasn't a game but an "experience that transcends games".

Then it came out and it was a sort of mediocre RPG that had a lot of cool ideas but slow pace and more 'realism' that just turned a lot of people off. I think it's similar to something like Daikatana which was called the worst game ever made for a while. It's a mediocre shooter with some cool ideas that weren't fully implemented (team system) that just failed to live up to the hype. Everyone remembers the "John Romero is going to make you his bitch" campaign and when Daikatana wasn't the best game ever, everyone turned on it and destroyed it.

Jim Sterling compares it to Waterworld in his latest video. I think it's also a decent comparison, biggest budgeted film when it came out, overly hyped etc. Then we got another mediocre weird post apocalyptic Kevin Costner movie a la The Postman that just couldn't meet expectations.

When you tell people something is the best thing eva!!1! before you even show it to them, they go in wanting to hate it. Unless by some miracle it really is mind blowingly good, but it almost never is.

It also doesn't help that the English dub is just flat out bad half the time, leading to too many memeable moments like looking for sailors or having to drive forklifts for half the game.

But.....nobody liked Waterworld. Literally no one.


plenty of people liked Shenmue

I mean...Final Fantasy VII did the same thing do you remember its advertisements? If Shenmue's was 'pretentious' then what were FF VII's? Its only because FF VII succeeded that we don't care to remember how pretentious their commercials were. But they were. All 100 million worth of them. Money well spent though.

Sega had a lot of problems though that Sony didnt have. A lot of these business related poor decisions, infighting, being acquired by Sammy, etc.

Some games succeed some fail. Its just the way it is. Same with movies. Martin Scorsese took 25 years to make the movie Silence, a passion project of his. Cost 50 million to make. Did 25 million at the box office. Should we say then that it sucked? Because of sales?
Kojima got mad and disrespected Americans for 'not understanding Death Stranding' (because all they like are FPS.....I guess thats why Nintendo games are so popular in the West?); the same country he adores because of Hollywood; praises Italy and France for having a much more refined sense for 'high art'. Was all that necessary? Death Stranding sold a little over 200k in Japan so far. I guess the Japanese are also culturally tone deaf by his standards?


I like Jim Sterling sometimes but sometimes he's off his fat rocker. This is the guy that swears up and down about Dynasty Warriors. Of course I get that its a guilty pleasure of his but still...
He also bashed DW9 though to hell, which to be fair had its problems for sure, but at least KT for once tried to do something different for a change, and he hated Mad Max which made no sense because that game was great. One thing he is right about is Konami sucks.

 

[Yokosuka]

Waterworld and Postman were actually very good movies that both suffered from many conjectures (too much marketing for the first one, deceptive marketing for the second).

Waterworld had more flaws because of the artistic dispute between the director and Costner, but it's really difficult to say anything thoroughly negative: funny villain (Denis Hopper is brilliant), believable world-building, good pace, entertaining, interesting enough and beautiful scenery.

The director's cut has officially been released this year (yes 2019!). Do you know why? Because the film had fans that kept sharing illegally the notorious fan-edit version (merge of the TV scenes with the theatrical version) over the years.

However I wouldn't compare Waterworld with Shenmue too much. Waterworld only executed well a formula with some original variations. Shenmue was revolutionary.

Postman is worthier the comparison. First reason because Postman is truly a great film. Second reason, it was really innovative in the way of viewing the apocalyptic genre. While Waterworld, Mad Max and other clones were rather pessimistic in their depiction of humanity, Postman praised the social unity, the "keeps your friends close to you" at nation scale.

Amazingly, Postman shares many ideas with Death Stranding (enthusiasm for citizenship, social motivation for rebuilding, story centered on postmen, addiction to help others).

I recommend to read the opinion of David Brin, the original author of the Postman novel, if you wonder what the film aimed to convey and why it was badly received at the time.

 

[pilman]

It was the Xbox version that got me into Shenmue in March 2004 when I was 14. Never played the games before and didn’t know much about them because I never owned a Dreamcast until 2010. I saw Shenmue 2 discounted and took a gamble. Little did I know I had brought the bargain of my life as it is now my all time favourite game. I shudder to think had I passed on the game; it could easily have happened. I for one am thankful it made it to the Xbox because otherwise I would have never known about Shenmue.

Me too man, I have stated this story many times but will share it again..

I first found out about Shenmue in Highschool and wanted to try it, heard the 2nd one wasn't coming to the US and I found out in my tech class from a fellow student who told me about this amazing game where you fight 70 people and can work and play arcade games. The concept sounded amazing but no one I knew had it and Dreamcast was already off the shelves when I tried to find one.

When I was forced to relocate from Chicago to Florida, I did have a Xbox with a big duke controller and since my parents were separating, my computer was on it's last legs and my only entertainment for dvds or games was my Xbox. I saw an article with OXM and Gameinformer about Shenmue II and heard it was coming out in October and played a demo with the QTE. It was enough to get me to rent it at blockbuster October 2002, first Shenmue game I ever played.

It was such a bizarre slow game but just being in this weird location in hong kong, being able to zoom into objects, talk to everyone, I really felt lost getting off that boat despite having not played the first game until later. I was playing on an old tv with coax hookups and a radioshack converter and the colors sucked but I didnt care, this weird game where I could collect capsule toys, talk to everyone, go in every shop, arm wrestle, fight, punch a tree until covered in leaves, I knew it was a special game. My mom got me it as a Christmas gift 2002 and I watched the dvd to catch up. I went through really rough times but that game always cheered me up and it was therapeutic.

I get it and I felt like I had to justify why I liked Shenmue to so many haters. At times I felt insulted as if I had to feel ashamed to enjoy something I liked. I don't care what others think, I was already sold on the game.

 

[SCQ]

- It being on kickstarter
- Poor communication when suspicious claims were made like sony investing in the game
- The trailers shown looking bad
- Epic store exclusive
- the first 2 games already being very polarising
- the game actually not being very good on release

I don't think Shenmue 3 has been treated any worse than any other game. Actually the love people have for the series probably got it higher scores than it deserved in many cases as well as a lot of positive coverage which other games wouldn't get in the same context.

Does this mean I think the gaming media is fair and balanced? Lol no, not at all. But Shenmue's marketing team were so incredibly incompetent that they just gave anyone wanting to say anything negative about the game exactly what they wanted again and again.

There is no conspiracy. No one is a martyr. No one is being oppressed. You need to chill out.

 

[Budgiecat]

- It being on kickstarter
- Poor communication when suspicious claims were made like sony investing in the game
- The trailers shown looking bad
- Epic store exclusive
- the first 2 games already being very polarising
- the game actually not being very good on release

I don't think Shenmue 3 has been treated any worse than any other game. Actually the love people have for the series probably got it higher scores than it deserved in many cases as well as a lot of positive coverage which other games wouldn't get in the same context.

Does this mean I think the gaming media is fair and balanced? Lol no, not at all. But Shenmue's marketing team were so incredibly incompetent that they just gave anyone wanting to say anything negative about the game exactly what they wanted again and again.

There is no conspiracy. No one is a martyr. No one is being oppressed. You need to chill out.

Point #1 I dont agree with. Bloodstained was kickstarted and it didnt get anywhere near the hate Shenmue 3 got.
Hell, I dont even think Mighty No 9 got the same hate until after it was released and people felt Inafune scammed them and the game didnt look as promising as it was originally pitched. Amd its not like Mega Man or CV games had a huge high bar to meet anyway.
Shenmue, we all knew the game had an uphill battle due to the smaller amount of budget it had to work with as opposed to the original games budgets and the high bar it had set for its time.
Now people would expect or want Shenmue 3 to raise the bar yet again but with a small indie budget? When there's AAA games with budget of up to 250 million? Thats not even an uphill climb anymore thats like asking to travel to the next galaxy.

I'm not sure I even understand your point #2. Sony allowed them to be on stage to promote the Kickstarter. Clearly Sony was only marginally helping with marketing from day one so yeah I dont get the "suspicious claims" part there.

Point 3, okay sure up to 2017 trailers yeah. But anyone looking forward to the game with any sort of common sense knew this was work in progress. And most commercial games dont put out trailers of work in progress / proof of concept stuff unless its close to release. But yeah the ignorant bastards who used it to take pot shots at the game so I'll give ya that one

Point 4; Epic Store exclusive. I think this was more of the whole 'ya lied to us!' PC thing where people were expecting the game to be on Steam and then wanted refunds and all the Youtube outrage clickbait journos jumped on the story. So yeah this one too

Point 5: Yeah

Point 6: Subjective. And probably a lot of that having to do with the above points. People looking for reasons not to like the game. Surely the game had its flaws but every game does. Plus there was a lot of high competition this month so the game was handwaved off in favor of Pokemon, Death Stranding, Jedi Fallen Order, even Trails of Cold Steel III.

 

[Kyo_JP]

Mighty n9 was much more hated than Shenmue III, basically all image problems Kickstarter games have now are Inafune's fault

 

[Budgiecat]

Mighty n9 was much more hated than Shenmue III, basically all image problems Kickstarter games have now are Inafune's fault

After the fact but not during. When it was first revealed it got a lot of positivity and support. Its after that when it started to spiral down once they realized Inafune's scheming.