Where U think the source of Haters originated from???

[Kyo_JP]

After the fact but not during. When it was first revealed it got a lot of positivity and support. Its after that when it started to spiral down once they realized Inafune's scheming.

And it paced the way for all future projects. Decieving artwork, second KS for DLC, the Legends kind of game KS before finishing the previous one, and then the shitty game they released

 

[Budgiecat]

And it paced the way for all future projects. Decieving artwork, second KS for DLC, the Legends kind of game KS before finishing the previous one, and then the shitty game they released

okay? But what I said still stands

 

[Guangyan Wang]

- the game actually not being very good on release

What absolute rubbish. Yes the game has its problems plotwise but it is pure Shenmue in terms of gameplay and atmosphere. I would go so far as to state that any Shenmue fan who dismisses this game, and there are many in this forum, were never really fans in the first place. We can argue about plot and dodgy presentation but I cannot believe a Shenmue fan cannot at least appreciate the love and craft put into the game by Yu and his team after so much time in the wilderness.

This is not aimed at you personally. I have read a lot of bile on this forum about the game. The nadir being someone stating Yu should be stoned. All you can do is shake your head. We finally get a game we never thought possible that is completely in spirit with the originals and we just moan and dismiss it because it doesn't meet our impossible expectations.

Shenmue to me was always about the journey not the destination and it that respect it has completely lived up to my expectations. I loved my time in Bailu Village and Niaowu just as much as my time in Dobuita, Hong Kong and Kowloon. I just hope all this negativity doesn't kill off the chances of Shenmue 4. If it does every so called Shenmue fan who posted dirt about Shenmue 3 should be ashamed of themselves for contributing to the death of one of the greatest games series of all time.

 

[SCQ]

Point #1 I dont agree with. Bloodstained was kickstarted and it didnt get anywhere near the hate Shenmue 3 got.
Hell, I dont even think Mighty No 9 got the same hate until after it was released and people felt Inafune scammed them and the game didnt look as promising as it was originally pitched. Amd its not like Mega Man or CV games had a huge high bar to meet anyway.
Shenmue, we all knew the game had an uphill battle due to the smaller amount of budget it had to work with as opposed to the original games budgets and the high bar it had set for its time.
Now people would expect or want Shenmue 3 to raise the bar yet again but with a small indie budget? When there's AAA games with budget of up to 250 million? Thats not even an uphill climb anymore thats like asking to travel to the next galaxy.

I'm not sure I even understand your point #2. Sony allowed them to be on stage to promote the Kickstarter. Clearly Sony was only marginally helping with marketing from day one so yeah I dont get the "suspicious claims" part there.

Point 3, okay sure up to 2017 trailers yeah. But anyone looking forward to the game with any sort of common sense knew this was work in progress. And most commercial games dont put out trailers of work in progress / proof of concept stuff unless its close to release. But yeah the ignorant bastards who used it to take pot shots at the game so I'll give ya that one

Point 4; Epic Store exclusive. I think this was more of the whole 'ya lied to us!' PC thing where people were expecting the game to be on Steam and then wanted refunds and all the Youtube outrage clickbait journos jumped on the story. So yeah this one too

Point 5: Yeah

Point 6: Subjective. And probably a lot of that having to do with the above points. People looking for reasons not to like the game. Surely the game had its flaws but every game does. Plus there was a lot of high competition this month so the game was handwaved off in favor of Pokemon, Death Stranding, Jedi Fallen Order, even Trails of Cold Steel III.

Bloodstained didnt get the same amount of hate because it got no where near the same amount of coverage. That being said even if it only got positive wouldn't really disprove what I'm saying since it would just be an exception. My point is that people and the gaming media were weary of kickstarter games at the time because multiple projects had been either borderline scams or very poorly handled.

My point is on number 2 that there was a big misunderstanding that sony invested in shenmue 3 when they didn't which made the kickstarter campaign look very suspicious. This situation was handled poorly at the time due to bad communication and bad communication is something that was common during the whole of development.

The point isn't if it was treated fairly or not but rather the marketing team failed to anticipate something that was obvious.

Not really subjective. It has many flaws that objectively warrant it low scores. I'm not shitting on anyone for enjoying it but it has some design issues that even most fans agree on being bad. Pair that with the mess the whole marketing campaign has been and its no wonder it has performed poorly.

 

[Gjb1985]

But.....nobody liked Waterworld. Literally no one.


plenty of people liked Shenmue

I mean...Final Fantasy VII did the same thing do you remember its advertisements? If Shenmue's was 'pretentious' then what were FF VII's? Its only because FF VII succeeded that we don't care to remember how pretentious their commercials were. But they were. All 100 million worth of them. Money well spent though.

Sega had a lot of problems though that Sony didnt have. A lot of these business related poor decisions, infighting, being acquired by Sammy, etc.

Some games succeed some fail. Its just the way it is. Same with movies. Martin Scorsese took 25 years to make the movie Silence, a passion project of his. Cost 50 million to make. Did 25 million at the box office. Should we say then that it sucked? Because of sales?
Kojima got mad and disrespected Americans for 'not understanding Death Stranding' (because all they like are FPS.....I guess thats why Nintendo games are so popular in the West?); the same country he adores because of Hollywood; praises Italy and France for having a much more refined sense for 'high art'. Was all that necessary? Death Stranding sold a little over 200k in Japan so far. I guess the Japanese are also culturally tone deaf by his standards?


I like Jim Sterling sometimes but sometimes he's off his fat rocker. This is the guy that swears up and down about Dynasty Warriors. Of course I get that its a guilty pleasure of his but still...
He also bashed DW9 though to hell, which to be fair had its problems for sure, but at least KT for once tried to do something different for a change, and he hated Mad Max which made no sense because that game was great. One thing he is right about is Konami sucks.

Death stranding has sold 250,000 in Japan on PS4 being the record highest selling new ip in Japan on a PlayStation since nearly a decade

 

[Crimson]

Death stranding has sold 250,000 in Japan on PS4 being the record highest selling new ip in Japan on a PlayStation since nearly a decade

With the huge and continuous marketing from Sony in Japan (it's literally everywhere) about this game, I would have been surprised if it didn't sell at least as much...

 

[Myshtuff]

What absolute rubbish. Yes the game has its problems plotwise but it is pure Shenmue in terms of gameplay and atmosphere. I would go so far as to state that any Shenmue fan who dismisses this game, and there are many in this forum, were never really fans in the first place. We can argue about plot and dodgy presentation but I cannot believe a Shenmue fan cannot at least appreciate the love and craft put into the game by Yu and his team after so much time in the wilderness.

While I can get behind not personally attacking Suzuki and his team because that takes it too far, the fact that nothing negative can be said is nonsense. I'm sorry but the vast majority of people here have the inability to call a baby ugly, so to speak. Yes, its more Shenmue. We are all generally happy that his happened. However, there is ALOT that is bad with this game. Does it make it unplayable? No. Does it make me want Shenmue 4 any less? No. Do I wish that Suzuki would be objective and not cater to nostalgia and outdated gaming practices? Absolutely yes.

People keep saying they want Shenmue 4 to happen and it absolutely will not unless 3 does well. Suffice to say, its not doing all that well people. Modern gamers don't give a fuck about this series and us artificially inflating the review scores is downright deceptive which all of you supposedly hate. This also brings me to my next point around you saying some of us criticizing the game means we weren't fans to begin with.

I'm sorry, but where the fuck were you the last 15+ years on the original forum when we still had a vibrant community? Where were you during all the years and years of literally 0 Shenmue news when we still hung out on here, talked about life, and theorized about Shenmue? Where were you when every time LanDC posted a new mod or something cool he found, we all practically shit our pants? Where are your pictures on the original dojo site with fan art? Where are your pictures of all the strategy guides, artwork, fanmade memorabilia, bootleg VCD movies, wacthes, figures, and every single version of the DC and xbox games that we were all so proud of?

Don't fucking tell us we aren't fans you bumbling jackass. If you can't tell, we are still posting on this site because WE ARE FANS. We want this to do well. We want this to continue. However, if it will continue with more of what we saw in Shenmue 3, I'd rather let it die and remember what it was. Us "haters" may be in the minority, but at least we're honest.

 

[mjqjazzbar]

While I can get behind not personally attacking Suzuki and his team because that takes it too far, the fact that nothing negative can be said is nonsense. I'm sorry but the vast majority of people here have the inability to call a baby ugly, so to speak. Yes, its more Shenmue. We are all generally happy that his happened. However, there is ALOT that is bad with this game. Does it make it unplayable? No. Does it make me want Shenmue 4 any less? No. Do I wish that Suzuki would be objective and not cater to nostalgia and outdated gaming practices? Absolutely yes.

People keep saying they want Shenmue 4 to happen and it absolutely will not unless 3 does well. Suffice to say, its not doing all that well people. Modern gamers don't give a fuck about this series and us artificially inflating the review scores is downright deceptive which all of you supposedly hate. This also brings me to my next point around you saying some of us criticizing the game means we weren't fans to begin with.

I'm sorry, but where the fuck were you the last 15+ years on the original forum when we still had a vibrant community? Where were you during all the years and years of literally 0 Shenmue news when we still hung out on here, talked about life, and theorized about Shenmue? Where were you when every time LanDC posted a new mod or something cool he found, we all practically shit our pants? Where are your pictures on the original dojo site with fan art? Where are your pictures of all the strategy guides, artwork, fanmade memorabilia, bootleg VCD movies, wacthes, figures, and every single version of the DC and xbox games that we were all so proud of?

Don't fucking tell us we aren't fans you bumbling jackass. If you can't tell, we are still posting on this site because WE ARE FANS. We want this to do well. We want this to continue. However, if it will continue with more of what we saw in Shenmue 3, I'd rather let it die and remember what it was. Us "haters" may be in the minority, but at least we're honest.

But you said you were loving the game the other day. What turned your milk sour???

 

[mjqjazzbar]

Hey, man. I read your post and you just sound entitled. They made a game with limited resources and you don’t love it even though you said you did a week ago. Suzuki’s either gonna make another game or he isn’t, no matter what any of us here think. Move on if you think the dream’s dead. You aren’t 13 anymore. No game will ever impact you the way these games did in 2000.

 

[Myshtuff]

But you said you were loving the game the other day. What turned your milk sour???

I just replied in the other post, but basically nostalgia. I did love it at first. I was enjoying it and wearing rose tinted glasses. I then took them off halfway through and realized how little fun I was actually having. It was such a slog getting through and other than the upcoming DLC, I don't plan on revisting this game again. Keep in mind, I still revisit Shenmue 1 every couple years and plan to do so in the future. That has its place in history. Shenmue 3 just doesn't. At least to me.

 

[Myshtuff]

Hey, man. I read your post and you just sound entitled. They made a game with limited resources and you don’t love it even though you said you did a week ago. Suzuki’s either gonna make another game or he isn’t, no matter what any of us here think. Move on if you think the dream’s dead. You aren’t 13 anymore. No game will ever impact you the way these games did in 2000.

If entitled means being honest, then I guess I'm entitled.

 

[spud1897]

While I can get behind not personally attacking Suzuki and his team because that takes it too far, the fact that nothing negative can be said is nonsense. I'm sorry but the vast majority of people here have the inability to call a baby ugly, so to speak. Yes, its more Shenmue. We are all generally happy that his happened. However, there is ALOT that is bad with this game. Does it make it unplayable? No. Does it make me want Shenmue 4 any less? No. Do I wish that Suzuki would be objective and not cater to nostalgia and outdated gaming practices? Absolutely yes.

People keep saying they want Shenmue 4 to happen and it absolutely will not unless 3 does well. Suffice to say, its not doing all that well people. Modern gamers don't give a fuck about this series and us artificially inflating the review scores is downright deceptive which all of you supposedly hate. This also brings me to my next point around you saying some of us criticizing the game means we weren't fans to begin with.

I'm sorry, but where the fuck were you the last 15+ years on the original forum when we still had a vibrant community? Where were you during all the years and years of literally 0 Shenmue news when we still hung out on here, talked about life, and theorized about Shenmue? Where were you when every time LanDC posted a new mod or something cool he found, we all practically shit our pants? Where are your pictures on the original dojo site with fan art? Where are your pictures of all the strategy guides, artwork, fanmade memorabilia, bootleg VCD movies, wacthes, figures, and every single version of the DC and xbox games that we were all so proud of?

Don't fucking tell us we aren't fans you bumbling jackass. If you can't tell, we are still posting on this site because WE ARE FANS. We want this to do well. We want this to continue. However, if it will continue with more of what we saw in Shenmue 3, I'd rather let it die and remember what it was. Us "haters" may be in the minority, but at least we're honest.

Been here for quite sometime. I get your point but rein it in a little.

You're being honest about your opinion and that's great, it's not representative of everyone. Others are being honest that they liked the game, again not representative of everyone but that creates discussion.

What we're wary of is certain users coming in to stir trouble and troll rather than create discussion. Not saying you are btw.

 

[Sh3ppy]

However, if it will continue with more of what we saw in Shenmue 3, I'd rather let it die and remember what it was. Us "haters" may be in the minority, but at least we're honest.

Everyone has their opinions but I cannot agree with the above. S3 exceeded my expectations, especially given the budget limitations Yu had to work with. If S4 is more of the same I’d be very, very happy to see it exist. And just because I feel the contrary to you doesn’t mean I’m not “at least” being honest.

 

[mjqjazzbar]

The game wouldn’t have sold any better if it did everything right and was on par with the first two games. Just face the music... it’s Shenmue and Shenmue won’t ever be a mainstream or popular game. A lot of folks slammed the first two games too. Ys Net did well with the hand they were dealt and I wouldn’t be surprised if they saved money so they could keep working on the fourth game especially given what I just saw posted in the 4 sub forum

 

[Myshtuff]

The game wouldn’t have sold any better if it did everything right and was on par with the first two games. Just face the music... it’s Shenmue and Shenmue won’t ever be a mainstream or popular game. A lot of folks slammed the first two games too. Ys Net did well with the hand they were dealt and I wouldn’t be surprised if they saved money so they could keep working on the fourth game especially given what I just saw posted in the 4 sub forum

Believe it or not, I actually agree with you. This series is very unique and caters to a specific audience. That goes without saying at this point. If thats the case, why do people here keep trying to turn it into something it's not? Either its niche or its a big blockbuster that will sell millions. You can't have it both ways. If you want it to stay niche, then let it be as is I suppose. If you want to get people interested in it who don't normally like Shenmue or complain that IGN gives it a shit score, then it needs to change.

Also, as for the whole saving money aspect to make Shenmue 4, how does that not concern you? Are you saying that Shenmue 4 will be made with the leftover scraps from 3 and we'll get an even more watered down experience because of minimal funding? That sounds awful.

 

[spud1897]

Also, as for the whole saving money aspect to make Shenmue 4, how does that not concern you? Are you saying that Shenmue 4 will be made with the leftover scraps from 3 and we'll get an even more watered down experience because of minimal funding? That sounds awful.

I think what they're getting at is if some ground work for Shenmue 4 has been done via money saved from Shenmue III then that's fine.

They're not saying this would be the sole source of funding. That's simply not the case.

 

[Budgiecat]

Not really subjective. It has many flaws that objectively warrant it low scores. I'm not shitting on anyone for enjoying it but it has some design issues that even most fans agree on being bad.

Then you should have worded it like that. The way you originally worded it felt more like passing off opinion like its fact.

 

[mjqjazzbar]

I'm saying it is what it is. I'll take table scraps if that's all they can offer me. Not my ideal situation, but unfortunately when Shenmue 1+2 flopped 20 years ago the series' future was kind of already written. I'd love Yu Suzuki to get his hands on $50 million to make an absolutely bonkers Shenmue IV, but that wouldn't have happened even if Shenmue 3 had gotten 100s from every major publication in the world. It's just not a mainstream game. Yu Suzuki was lucky Sega was so into him in the '90s and managed to get those huge budgets. I think if you're not willing to accept a compromised Shenmue series, then you might as well enjoy the first two games and just forget about the rest. They simply can't make the game of your dreams.

 

[Budgiecat]

Believe it or not, I actually agree with you. This series is very unique and caters to a specific audience. That goes without saying at this point. If thats the case, why do people here keep trying to turn it into something it's not? Either its niche or its a big blockbuster that will sell millions. You can't have it both ways. If you want it to stay niche, then let it be as is I suppose. If you want to get people interested in it who don't normally like Shenmue or complain that IGN gives it a shit score, then it needs to change.

Also, as for the whole saving money aspect to make Shenmue 4, how does that not concern you? Are you saying that Shenmue 4 will be made with the leftover scraps from 3 and we'll get an even more watered down experience because of minimal funding? That sounds awful.

You cant do 'big blockbuster' with 7 million development budget and 5 million marketing budget though. Some reviewers as well as some gamers pit this game against AAA games and then bash it like it was somehow supposed to stand next to them with 1/10th the budget

 

[Budgiecat]

I'm saying it is what it is. I'll take table scraps if that's all they can offer me. Not my ideal situation, but unfortunately when Shenmue 1+2 flopped 20 years ago the series' future was kind of already written. I'd love Yu Suzuki to get his hands on $50 million to make an absolutely bonkers Shenmue IV, but that wouldn't have happened even if Shenmue 3 had gotten 100s from every major publication in the world. It's just not a mainstream game. Yu Suzuki was lucky Sega was so into him in the '90s and managed to get those huge budgets. I think if you're not willing to accept a compromised Shenmue series, then you might as well enjoy the first two games and just forget about the rest.

I wouldnt say that was luck though. Suzuki was Sega's Miyamoto after all. He made a lot of their well received games. Sega isnt just Sonic after all (like the Sonic fanboys and some people over at Sega would like you to believe lol) Its why even after he's left he is still respected and is still used as a consultant when they need him.

But yeah, at the heart of the series, Shenmue is a point and click adventure game. Those aren't exactly blockbusters.
The closest thats ever gotten to that status were David Cage games and he's a huge Shenmue fan go figure