Why kickstarter to make S4? What about SEGA?

[Tomato Convenience Store]

This is probably slightly off topic, but man, I remember how much of a Sega fanboy I used to be. If Sega was making a game, I was interested and most likely buying it. I supported a bunch of their main xbox releases (Shenmue 2, JSRF, Panzer Dragoon, Gunvalkyrie, ToeJam and Earl III, NFL 2K5, publishing Otogi 1 and 2, etc) and really hoped they could keep their magic going. I bought Valkyria Chronicles on PS3. After that, nothing really caught my interest except Sonic Mania. I haven't played Yazuka but I'm sure I can dig the series, but I just don't really have an attachment to any of their games anymore. It could be because I'm older and not particularly fanatical about anything, but there are still some games companies where I'll pretty much always buy their new releases.

I think I honestly just feel let down by not getting more Shenmue from them. It makes sense from a business standpoint, I get it, but I also feel like the series got canceled due to some suits looking strictly at Shenmue 2 Xbox sales numbers with no other considerations. If they publish Shenmue 4 perhaps that will bring back some mojo for me. I do think they would be the ideal publisher for Shenmue 4 but I don't see them stepping up to the plate and making things happen. I suppose it just comes down to getting the sales numbers from Shenmue 3 and taking it from there, but I still argue an improved Shenmue 4 can outsell Shenmue 3.

 

[IzOfHeavens]

maybe

maybe not

We dont know what that engine is fully capable of. Its designed for Yakuza and nothing else.

And Yakuza while great, doesn't emphasis certain real time things that Shenmue needs which ends up being more taxing and resource expensive on the software and hardware.

There's also the fact it currently is locked to 30fps on current consoles. Which shows whatever it needs to be doing which it does already, is taxing on the resources it needs. I imagine this will no doubt improve for PS5 and others next gen but still.

I have Kiwami 2 for PC and it runs at 60fps but maybe if Dragon Engine is optimized it could be less taxing on consoles and non-gaming PCs.

For what it's worth, I honestly would not mind if Shenmue 4 kind of just copied Yakuza's format. I wish Shemue 3 had less walking and talking to long-winded/unskippable NPCs to get directions to the next location and were more straight forward in the way the Yakuza series is. Talking to NPCs to get directions and having a million shops to buy completely useless items is really just a big waste of development time/dev money.

After binging Yakuza 0 through 2 this summer after the PC release and coming to Shenmue 3 I feel the Shenmue could really benefit from adopting some of the things Yakuza is doing. The side stories in Yakuza were all hilarious with great writing while the side stories in Shenmue seem to all involve playing gatcha for some kid. The combat system isn't very in-depth but works. It sucks Shenmue 3's combat is a massive downgrade from 2. The main story pacing in Yakuza is even much better. I honestly hate how many shops Shenmue has with items that serve zero purpose(why would i ever want to buy lamps and wall scrolls?). I say 75% of the "content" currently in Shenmue 3 has zero entertainment value and really serves to fluff of the play time. Imagine if all the time/money spent developing fluff, NPC voice actors, useless items etc went towards the combat system and proper side-quests?


sorry for the rant. Big Shenmue fan since early 00s but I think it's time for a change with Shenmue 4 if(hopefully) it happens.

 

[Dmitriy1]

I have Kiwami 2 for PC and it runs at 60fps but maybe if Dragon Engine is optimized it could be less taxing on consoles and non-gaming PCs.

For what it's worth, I honestly would not mind if Shenmue 4 kind of just copied Yakuza's format. I wish Shemue 3 had less walking and talking to long-winded/unskippable NPCs to get directions to the next location and were more straight forward in the way the Yakuza series is. Talking to NPCs to get directions and having a million shops to buy completely useless items is really just a big waste of development time/dev money.

After binging Yakuza 0 through 2 this summer after the PC release and coming to Shenmue 3 I feel the Shenmue could really benefit from adopting some of the things Yakuza is doing. The side stories in Yakuza were all hilarious with great writing while the side stories in Shenmue seem to all involve playing gatcha for some kid. The combat system isn't very in-depth but works. It sucks Shenmue 3's combat is a massive downgrade from 2. The main story pacing in Yakuza is even much better. I honestly hate how many shops Shenmue has with items that serve zero purpose(why would i ever want to buy lamps and wall scrolls?). I say 75% of the "content" currently in Shenmue 3 has zero entertainment value and really serves to fluff of the play time. Imagine if all the time/money spent developing fluff, NPC voice actors, useless items etc went towards the combat system and proper side-quests?


sorry for the rant. Big Shenmue fan since early 00s but I think it's time for a change with Shenmue 4 if(hopefully) it happens.

I agree on a lot, other than combat. Unless you freaking stop comparing and learn the new system, really learn it. You'll never appreciate it. As far as talking with NPCs for directions, stop comparing Shenmue to a dumbed down action game. The reason SEGA did that crap, was to save money yes. I don't care how you slice it, Yakuza is a cheaper to make rip off, with a worse combat system, with everything I hate about the modern movies and even TV series lately. Shenmue is an adventure/RPG. This is EXACTLY what you do in adventure/RPG games. Either you like the genre, or you don't. Stupid collections were dumb yes, making a hundred plus shops to sell them was dumb yes. But I'd hate if what you want so badly, a Yakuza Shenmue 4 happened. Shenmue is Shenmue, it's deeper, it's about immersion. That makes the fighting mean more when it happens.

 

[Dmitriy1]

This is probably slightly off topic, but man, I remember how much of a Sega fanboy I used to be. If Sega was making a game, I was interested and most likely buying it. I supported a bunch of their main xbox releases (Shenmue 2, JSRF, Panzer Dragoon, Gunvalkyrie, ToeJam and Earl III, NFL 2K5, publishing Otogi 1 and 2, etc) and really hoped they could keep their magic going. I bought Valkyria Chronicles on PS3. After that, nothing really caught my interest except Sonic Mania. I haven't played Yazuka but I'm sure I can dig the series, but I just don't really have an attachment to any of their games anymore. It could be because I'm older and not particularly fanatical about anything, but there are still some games companies where I'll pretty much always buy their new releases.

I think I honestly just feel let down by not getting more Shenmue from them. It makes sense from a business standpoint, I get it, but I also feel like the series got canceled due to some suits looking strictly at Shenmue 2 Xbox sales numbers with no other considerations. If they publish Shenmue 4 perhaps that will bring back some mojo for me. I do think they would be the ideal publisher for Shenmue 4 but I don't see them stepping up to the plate and making things happen. I suppose it just comes down to getting the sales numbers from Shenmue 3 and taking it from there, but I still argue an improved Shenmue 4 can outsell Shenmue 3.

I'd say that lately too many incredible RPGs were brought out, to make Shenmue just another one. Other SEGA games I really never even cared about, their first party games. I'm actually glad Suzuki might be able to make Shenmue 4 completely without them. Shenmue 3 was still a great game, way better than anything SEGA did pre Shenmue 1, or after Shenmue 2. Unique, deep, full of fun gameplay still after all these years. I hope he never gives up on 4.

 

[Sput Vas Normandy]

This is probably slightly off topic, but man, I remember how much of a Sega fanboy I used to be. If Sega was making a game, I was interested and most likely buying it. I supported a bunch of their main xbox releases (Shenmue 2, JSRF, Panzer Dragoon, Gunvalkyrie, ToeJam and Earl III, NFL 2K5, publishing Otogi 1 and 2, etc) and really hoped they could keep their magic going. I bought Valkyria Chronicles on PS3. After that, nothing really caught my interest except Sonic Mania. I haven't played Yazuka but I'm sure I can dig the series, but I just don't really have an attachment to any of their games anymore. It could be because I'm older and not particularly fanatical about anything, but there are still some games companies where I'll pretty much always buy their new releases.

I think I honestly just feel let down by not getting more Shenmue from them. It makes sense from a business standpoint, I get it, but I also feel like the series got canceled due to some suits looking strictly at Shenmue 2 Xbox sales numbers with no other considerations. If they publish Shenmue 4 perhaps that will bring back some mojo for me. I do think they would be the ideal publisher for Shenmue 4 but I don't see them stepping up to the plate and making things happen. I suppose it just comes down to getting the sales numbers from Shenmue 3 and taking it from there, but I still argue an improved Shenmue 4 can outsell Shenmue 3.

Give it a try to Yakuza and you will feel that again for Sega

 

[Suzaku]

I have Kiwami 2 for PC and it runs at 60fps but maybe if Dragon Engine is optimized it could be less taxing on consoles and non-gaming PCs.

For what it's worth, I honestly would not mind if Shenmue 4 kind of just copied Yakuza's format. I wish Shemue 3 had less walking and talking to long-winded/unskippable NPCs to get directions to the next location and were more straight forward in the way the Yakuza series is. Talking to NPCs to get directions and having a million shops to buy completely useless items is really just a big waste of development time/dev money.

I'm an original fan of both Shenmue and Yakuza.
But I believe that it's Yakuza that should copy the Shenmue formula, not the other way around.

Yakuza is a great series, but compared to Shenmue is a relic from PS2 era, and it makes me mad when I think to it:

-Static as hell
-no day-night cycle
-no weather system
-no real dialogue system
-majority of dialogue are text only (even in Yakuza 7 that is a 2020 game! Come on Nagoshi)
-exploration is super limited to a few shops
-minigames and activities are separated from the game world unlike shenmue when everything happen there in real time
-worst story (it's a soap opera with the same old clichè repeated in any chapter since 2005)
-too much recycle
etc.

Yakuza is a worst experience compared to Shenmue, and playing Shenmue 3 after Judgment, Yakuza Kiwami 2 etc., only strenghten my opinion.

Shenmue 4 must do Shenmue.
Yakuza 8 instead must evolve taking inspiration from Shenmue. Yes Yakuza it's more polished (of course, it's the same game recycled for 14 years...), but it's a polished PS2 relic, even with the dragon engine.
The fact that people are more accustomed to Yakuza than Shenmue, doesn't change the reality.

 

[Truck_1_0_1_]

I agree on a lot, other than combat. Unless you freaking stop comparing and learn the new system, really learn it. You'll never appreciate it. As far as talking with NPCs for directions, stop comparing Shenmue to a dumbed down action game. The reason SEGA did that crap, was to save money yes. I don't care how you slice it, Yakuza is a cheaper to make rip off, with a worse combat system, with everything I hate about the modern movies and even TV series lately. Shenmue is an adventure/RPG. This is EXACTLY what you do in adventure/RPG games. Either you like the genre, or you don't. Stupid collections were dumb yes, making a hundred plus shops to sell them was dumb yes. But I'd hate if what you want so badly, a Yakuza Shenmue 4 happened. Shenmue is Shenmue, it's deeper, it's about immersion. That makes the fighting mean more when it happens.

No it isn't.

It's a completely different genre, completely different gameplay-style, etc.

Shut up with this bashing; we are in a world where both can exist and both are exceptional video game series.

-minigames and activities are separated from the game world unlike shenmue when everything happen there in real time

Um, no they absolutely take place in real-time, outside of VR and IF. Furthermore, who cares? This is just a nitpicky, personal, "issue," you have.

-worst story (it's a soap opera with the same old clichè repeated in any chapter since 2005)

And now you're simply shit posting.

1, 3, 5, 6, Kenzan!, Ishin!, 0, both Kurohyos and Judge Eyes have FANTASTIC plots, with some being conceivable in real-life (which happened re: 3).

Just because YOU DON'T LIKE IT, doesn't make it bad (for the billionth time).

There is no damn reason for people to hate on either series; they are both different and both have a place in the gaming landscape.

This pettiness is ridiculous and makes you people sound as bad as the Epic/Steam, "crusaders."

 

[Suzaku]

Um, no they absolutely take place in real-time, outside of VR and IF. Furthermore, who cares? This is just a nitpicky, personal, "issue," you have.

I care, it's not nitpicking, these details are what made Shenmue a superior esperience in the end, whjile make Yakuza an oldish experience, despite people pretend it's the opposite.
It's hard to immerse in a world when every action you make is "separated" from the in-game world.

And now you're simply shit posting.

1, 3, 5, 6, Kenzan!, Ishin!, 0, both Kurohyos and Judge Eyes have FANTASTIC plots, with some being conceivable in real-life (which happened re: 3).

Just because YOU DON'T LIKE IT, doesn't make it bad (for the billionth time).

There is no damn reason for people to hate on either series; they are both different and both have a place in the gaming landscape.

This pettiness is ridiculous and makes you people sound as bad as the Epic/Steam, "crusaders."

who said that I don't like Yakuza stories, I said that I'm a fan of both series, but unlike most Yakzua fans, I recognize the many flaws this series has.
Yakuza stories use always the same cliche and plot became stale and predictable after so many games.

This is a simple truth, no need to be so hysteric.

 

[Dmitriy1]

No it isn't.

It's a completely different genre, completely different gameplay-style, etc.

Shut up with this bashing; we are in a world where both can exist and both are exceptional video game series.




Um, no they absolutely take place in real-time, outside of VR and IF. Furthermore, who cares? This is just a nitpicky, personal, "issue," you have.



And now you're simply shit posting.

1, 3, 5, 6, Kenzan!, Ishin!, 0, both Kurohyos and Judge Eyes have FANTASTIC plots, with some being conceivable in real-life (which happened re: 3).

Just because YOU DON'T LIKE IT, doesn't make it bad (for the billionth time).

There is no damn reason for people to hate on either series; they are both different and both have a place in the gaming landscape.

This pettiness is ridiculous and makes you people sound as bad as the Epic/Steam, "crusaders."

You know, the only reason I ever flame up at the mention of Yakuza, is when I'm told Shenmue should be like Yakuza. You guys I think were buying Yakuza because it was made by SEGA. I bought it because I thought, in some tiny way it'd be like Shenmue. You are right, it's a completely different game. One I couldn't force myself to finish. The first one in all these decades I never finished, and I've played many bad ones over the years. I personally think if it was not made by SEGA half of you wouldn't defend it as you do every time. But that's me. I also think it going turn based should have been done right at the start. No fight in it feels free, It has that Final Fantasy feel to it, but with way less skills whatsoever. Turn base might have improved much of that crap feel I had playing. Yes, I know I'm still talking about Yakuza 1. Sorry, I'll bash it all I want. From comments elsewhere I know the combat didn't improve THAT much. YouTube videos confirm it. I still think I'll try Yakuza zero when bored stiff, with nothing else there. I don't bash without playing the thing. This is my disc of the garbage.

 

[Suzaku]

While they are very different series, Yakuza really originated from Shenmue.
Without Shenmue, Yakuza would never exists.

That said it's a great series on its own especially because it's made by Sega, it contains all the arcade flavor of the company, and that's why people stick with Sega games, not because of the logo alone.
The battle system, based on Spikeout (sure not the best Sega fighting game), evolved with time and become really really good.

Yakuza in the end is a more playful and rude version of Shenmue.
It's good to have finally both series together, I only wish Yakuza fanboys would not try to destroy Shenmue 3 around the net every day...

 

[Sonoshee]

I was never able to fully understand why Sega couldn't have just funded Shenmue 3 outright.
They threw, what, $20 million at Shenmue Online, which was cancelled anyway? Atleast with 3 they'd have made money back on it.

 

[Dmitriy1]

I was never able to fully understand why Sega couldn't have just funded Shenmue 3 outright.
They threw, what, $20 million at Shenmue Online, which was cancelled anyway? Atleast with 3 they'd have made money back on it.

And of course with the official SEGA support of at least 20 mill it'd look way better, and maybe had better elements in it. But this is the company that wanted nothing to do with the title, while still holding the rights. You know, I get the loyalty. I do, even Suzuki said he was glad he worked at SEGA, other companies might have not even allowed a 2 part game, with even more to come. With that scope and costs. But once bankrupt, what SEGA is now, I'd not have any loyalty to. All that said, if they fund S4, even half fund it with other partners. I'll be their fan. Sonic, racing games, and fighting arcades mean squat to me, but that sure would mean a lot.

 

[Truck_1_0_1_]

But once bankrupt, what SEGA is now, I'd not have any loyalty to.

Wut?

 

[ShenFan2020]

This is probably slightly off topic, but man, I remember how much of a Sega fanboy I used to be. If Sega was making a game, I was interested and most likely buying it. I supported a bunch of their main xbox releases (Shenmue 2, JSRF, Panzer Dragoon, Gunvalkyrie, ToeJam and Earl III, NFL 2K5, publishing Otogi 1 and 2, etc) and really hoped they could keep their magic going. I bought Valkyria Chronicles on PS3. After that, nothing really caught my interest except Sonic Mania. I haven't played Yazuka but I'm sure I can dig the series, but I just don't really have an attachment to any of their games anymore. It could be because I'm older and not particularly fanatical about anything, but there are still some games companies where I'll pretty much always buy their new releases.

I think I honestly just feel let down by not getting more Shenmue from them. It makes sense from a business standpoint, I get it, but I also feel like the series got canceled due to some suits looking strictly at Shenmue 2 Xbox sales numbers with no other considerations. If they publish Shenmue 4 perhaps that will bring back some mojo for me. I do think they would be the ideal publisher for Shenmue 4 but I don't see them stepping up to the plate and making things happen. I suppose it just comes down to getting the sales numbers from Shenmue 3 and taking it from there, but I still argue an improved Shenmue 4 can outsell Shenmue 3.

Thats because when sega switched to software only, they lost half their studios and staff they had during dreamcast days. Some were sold, some folded, people left etc. The talent was mostly gone. Took them years to put out anything half decent and even then they don't really develop it in house, they are just a publisher really imo.

Best thing they've had their name on in recent years was Alien Isolation and that was Creative Assembly's work .

 

[mjqjazzbar]

Sega doesn’t want to take risks. That’s their old strategy. It’s not hard to understand. Shenmue is too risky of a proposition for Sega and they don’t have the studios available to work on it. RGG is dedicated to working on their own games; they’re not hired guns. AM2 appears to be a shadow of its former self and just makes anime-inspired arcade games.

If Shenmue 3 sales were magnificent I’d expect Sega to take a second look. I doubt that a couple hundred thousand copies sold, or less, will make them take a look.

 

[Sonoshee]

Sega doesn’t want to take risks. That’s their old strategy. It’s not hard to understand. Shenmue is too risky of a proposition for Sega and they don’t have the studios available to work on it. RGG is dedicated to working on their own games; they’re not hired guns. AM2 appears to be a shadow of its former self and just makes anime-inspired arcade games.

If Shenmue 3 sales were magnificent I’d expect Sega to take a second look. I doubt that a couple hundred thousand copies sold, or less, will make them take a look.

I never said anything about Sega working on it. I said funding it. Even partial funding would have been something. As far as I'm aware all they did was give YSNet the assets for the series.
They could have thrown even half that $20 million at it like they did with Shenmue Online, but this time they'd have seen a return on that money.If they could put that amount in on a cancelled project, I'm sure they could do so on a real project.
We could have seen Baisha included in Shenmue 3 if they'd bothered.

 

[mjqjazzbar]

I agree their support would have been amazing, but they wouldn’t have seen a return on their investment, especially if they threw even more money at this game. Shenmue 3 wouldn’t sell millions of copies even with another $10-15 million thrown at it and things would be even worse.

 

[gamesbloke]

For me there's the dream side and the realistic side. Would Sega help fund S4?

Did S1/2 HD sell well? Not really. So that's doubt number one.

Did S3 sell well? Folks with industry clout (Whether true or not is not my concern) argue that S3 has sold poorly overall and dismally in Japan. Sound the gong for doubt number two.

Where was the product placement in S1/2 HD? All gone for the most part. Stripped out essentially. Clearly a straightforward port in every way. Very shoddy day one release that needed patches. Doubt number three waddles into view.

Extremely limited Sega related content in S3. And this is the big deal for me. Why can't we have the abundant Sega content so prevalent in the previous games? Sega clearly had a financial/creative concern otherwise we'd all be playing Fantasy Zone and collecting Confidential Mission/Dynamite Cop gatchas etc etc etc. The fourth doubt rears its ugly head...

However: You just need an angle or hook to persuade the right person at the top of the food chain at Sega to green light a budget and all arguments are settled. Highly highly doubtful... But I never expected S3 so happy (So very very happy) to be proven wrong.

Don't like being negative without good reason but Sega are a holding company for the most part. The other angles to the business are low cost/high turnover affairs. Shenmue would have to fit in line with that ethos to get a Sega endorsed cheque.

 

[Sonoshee]

I agree their support would have been amazing, but they wouldn’t have seen a return on their investment, especially if they threw even more money at this game. Shenmue 3 wouldn’t sell millions of copies even with another $10-15 million thrown at it and things would be even worse.

A return, not total return. Sorry I should have made that a bit clearer.
They didn't see anything for their involvement with Shenmue Online. They would with Shenmue 3.
Don't get me wrong, I am extremely thankful Sega put out HD ports of the first two games and gave Yu the license to make 3.
But I think they could have put something in the pot. Even $5 million. That is scraps compared to what they put into other titles.

 

[Reprise]

There isn't a chance in hell Sega will come on board. If Shenmue 3 had sold millions, then maybe, but the game flopped and received mixed reactions from not just critics, but also fans and newcomers.