I never said you said it was the best looking game; I know you were talking about how it simulates a living world. I used the term "the best looking game" as an example to disprove a point @Sput was making and he decided to get all pedantic about it. I will edit the original post so instead of saying "best looking game" it reflects the point you were making, even though that wasn't what was being discussed.
Funny you should say that...
Funny you should say that...
How I feel about this whole thing, the interview is very positive, I like most of what Suzuki has to say, but I'm disappointed that he thought Shenmue III was what the fans wanted and that was his main goal, I think Shenmue III is what the CASUAL fans wanted "Lucky Hit, Arcades, silly voice acting, big Chinese city" all of that is what a loud Youtuber who's played Shenmue once thinks Shenmue is all about and unfortunately that seems to be all what Suzuki heard about what fans want and that might actually be fine, if it wasn't such a low budget version of those things on top of no story. If I'm gonna play Shenmue just for mainly it's side activities, It'd be much cooler if it was a AAA title with outstanding trail blazing graphics, cutscenes, voice acting and animations and if you can't provide that, I'm A OK with it, then make sure the story, gameplay and characters are pushed to the forefront instead and the last gen graphics and janky animations and even the janky combat wont bother me in the slightest.
I'm not saying we don't all want those things but I think most of us here can all agree those things were secondary and not what kept us all coming back for more. What we loved was the characters, the charm, the lore, the atmosphere, the legend, the music, the fighting, the attention to detail, the story, the way where if you search hard enough, till this very day, it is possible to find something new in Shenmue I & 2 which is borderline scary. We love all those things but those things are nothing without the main story and characters being the solid foundation, I think we've learnt that with Shenmue III, I said it at the end of my review as well Shenmue III felt like playing a tech demo where you get to do all the fun activities in the game but the meat of the game is not actually there. So it's disheartening Suzuki sacrificed the main course for just a plate full of side dishes because he thought that's what the fans wanted, hopefully now he understands that the side dishes without the main course still tastes decent but it still doesn't give you that magical TRUE Shenmue feel without the main course which was the story and characters.
Please describe in a way that illustrates how they do so in a way that's more comprehensive than the Shenmue series.
Was that the bar that was set? I'm pretty sure it wasn't, but in any case, as an example, the father of the kid manning the Buddhist stall can be seen roaming around New Paradise, chatting it up with a lot of the female shop workers there, before 8pm.
I'm not so sure about that:
You're sort of conflating a number of disparate ideas that don't really add up to what Shenmue does, though. If you can regularly pick out the same NPC, unique from all other NPCs in the game, observe how they go about their lives, and interact with most/all of them regularly (with fully voiced dialogue), then fair enough, but there's a difference between just a world of nameless, functionally faceless NPCs following routines, and having a world of unique people who can be checked up on as if they were real people.
Well, shit. Found out today that I'm a casual fan because Shenmue III exceeded my expectations, and was actually a full Shenmue game. You got me there.
I'm not sure what you're getting at here. If you want to say that everyone has a name and a relation in Bailu Village and Yokosuka, that's one thing, but compare Hong Kong, Kowloon, and Niaowu and that detail quickly falls apart. GTA5 takes place in fictional LA so no, not everyone can be tracked.
I'm not sure what bar was set; you mentioned the family structures of the citizens, obviously that doesn't apply to all the NPCs in GTA as it doesn't apply to all the NPCs in Niaowu. In most open world games, you can find side characters all over the map.
This is a fair point but surely scale needs to be taken into account. Majora's Mask can be said to check most of these boxes but I wouldn't call it an amazing simulation of life. You're placing a lot of emphasis on NPCs (which Shenmue, particularly S1, does really well) but what about all the other aspects that make game worlds feel alive? The way nature, physics, and wildlife is simulated in BotW brings that world to life in ways Shenmue can't touch. In GTA you can make it anywhere on the map, drive any vehicle, cause as much chaos wherever/whenever you want, and the world reacts to you providing freedom and interactivity that Shenmue doesn't (to say nothing of the sheer size of the thing). I don't think you can dismiss all the ways that games have advanced in areas that Shenmue chooses not to focus on completely out of hand just because they don't emphasize talking to NPCs. And if it's NPCs you like, have you ever played the Sims? Or Animal Crossing? Those also do a pretty good job of simulating life.
Funny you should say that...
How I feel about this whole thing, the interview is very positive, I like most of what Suzuki has to say, but I'm disappointed that he thought Shenmue III was what the fans wanted and that was his main goal, I think Shenmue III is what the CASUAL fans wanted "Lucky Hit, Arcades, silly voice acting, big Chinese city" all of that is what a loud Youtuber who's played Shenmue once thinks Shenmue is all about and unfortunately that seems to be all what Suzuki heard about what fans want and that might actually be fine, if it wasn't such a low budget version of those things on top of no story. If I'm gonna play Shenmue just for mainly it's side activities, It'd be much cooler if it was a AAA title with outstanding trail blazing graphics, cutscenes, voice acting and animations and if you can't provide that, I'm A OK with it, then make sure the story, gameplay and characters are pushed to the forefront instead and the last gen graphics and janky animations and even the janky combat wont bother me in the slightest.
I'm not saying we don't all want those things but I think most of us here can all agree those things were secondary and not what kept us all coming back for more. What we loved was the characters, the charm, the lore, the atmosphere, the legend, the music, the fighting, the attention to detail, the story, the way where if you search hard enough, till this very day, it is possible to find something new in Shenmue I & 2 which is borderline scary. We love all those things but those things are nothing without the main story and characters being the solid foundation, I think we've learnt that with Shenmue III, I said it at the end of my review as well Shenmue III felt like playing a tech demo where you get to do all the fun activities in the game but the meat of the game is not actually there. So it's disheartening Suzuki sacrificed the main course for just a plate full of side dishes because he thought that's what the fans wanted, hopefully now he understands that the side dishes without the main course still tastes decent but it still doesn't give you that magical TRUE Shenmue feel without the main course which was the story and characters.
Literally every NPC in Hong Kong, Kowloon, and I'm sure even Niaowu, has a name, and background data. Those details don't necessarily come out within the context of the game, but they can be felt in the way the world is constructed. (They're also listed in guide books.)
I'm pretty sure the criterion was whether or not these newer games surpassed Shenmue in these areas, so Shenmue doesn't need to have relational background details for every character, those other games would have to have more than Shenmue does.
Dude, come on, this is not the same thing, and you know it. I'm not going to knock either of those games, but they only contain one or two facets of what makes up the Shenmue experience. (However, yes, I have made perfect towns in the original Animal Crossing, and City Folk, but that's really neither here nor there.)
Sure, I don't really disagree. Newer AAA games probably are more technically advanced in terms of superficial world details. The point that I think has already been driven home, that you keep dancing around, is that there aren't really any other games that provide the full package that Shenmue does. You can poke, and prod at a couple of aspects of it until the cows come home, but what I'm pretty sure @9dragons was originally getting at was the singular nature of Shenmue's design philosophy, and how that translates to game worlds that can't be experienced elsewhere. Me-too AAAs are a dime a dozen. Shenmue does not need to be one of them.
Truly. I've pretty well convinced myself at this point that there's a contingent of people who are unable to reconcile the idea that their enduring love for the first two games is more a product of nostalgia than actually still aligning with what they consider to be a "good" game these days, because these:
were all still a part of Shenmue III. Doesn't matter to me if SIII is anyone's least favorite in the series, but I don't see any other way to reason the gulf some people perceive between them.
Agreed but to be fair to Adam and the like, we asked for that "extra crud" because like I said earlier Shenmue is both story and character as well as mini games, activities and slice of life (I actually felt the slice of life was a bit lacking in 3) we had no doubts the story and character would be taken care of that's probably why so many of us pushed for the crud because we thought it would get left on the wayside since common sense would tell you; story and character would come first, boy were in for a shock. We forced Suzuki's hand and the poor man thought he was just giving us what we wanted but we got it at the cost of the story and characters.Oh, I know he DEFINITELY isn't (he's the, "leader," of the superfans lol), but for some reason, I remember him being one of the biggest supporters of all the extra crud that many of us on here lamented; again, please correct me if I'm wrong, as it isn't my intention to besmirch anyone.
FTR (and I've stated this in many places, including my reviews), I absolutely don't mind all the extra crud; I partook in it immensely, like I always had in the first two games as well, but I knew well and good when I was grinding out the move scroll trophy, that this would turn off a ton of people and it was just... too much.
Things weren't balanced as they could've/should've been and while not a bad thing for some (me), it was a bad thing for many (see this thread).
As Pete Townshend penned, "Too much of anything, is too much for me. Too much of everything, gets too much for me."
This is the only thing we agree on so far. LolRydeen said:
I would say with almost 99% certainty that this is not true of Niaowu simply because it's impractical to make games like that anymore given the advances in technology. S1 and 2 were basically 100% handcrafted experiences; no one does that anymore because it's too time consuming, there are better methods, and, as you point out, those are the kinds of details that are lost on most players. It's just not worth it.
As far as I can tell the criterion is "best simulation of life", which is pretty broad and you're choosing to narrow to "named NPCs" for some reason.
This is what I'm talking about. We all think Shenmue is special, obviously, but that doesn't mean that no game has surpassed it. It's such an elitist worldview as if no game could come close to what Shenmue did and everything that tries is just superficially emulating it. As if no other game has any attention to detail and they're all made by a bunch of hacks. That's just not how it is. AAA gaming today is a fucking miracle; every time I look at a video of Uncharted or Spider-Man PS4, my inner 10 year old creams his jeans. And Shenmue was basically the first ultra budget AAA game; it paved the way for the kinds of graphics and spectacles we currently enjoy.
I’m pretty immune to nostalgia and I could say the exact same thing about people who love S3. Worse combat, stupid stamina, grindy mini games and an almost nonexistent storyline with no villains, and an almost total lack of the supernatural/mystical made it virtually indistinguishable from S2 and I am truly baffled that anyone could consider it a worthy follow up. How is that nostalgia? S2 has flaws but nothing approaching S3’s laundry list.
The problem with this is that he said a similar thing about S3. Plot points like the prophecy, the mirrors, the second Shenmue tree should have been explained in Bailu. The mirrors, the prophecy and the Shenmue trees are from Bailu. Also it's Shenny's home. Where would have been a better place to explain those things?
Shenmue 4
I agree it would make some sense to get some of these answers in bailu but I feel like the only person who could have provide these was probably Shenhua's father? Unfortunately he was kicking it in jail while we were in bailu lol.
