Is Yu Suzuki out of touch with gaming standards?

[Suzaku]

No I don't think Yu is "out of touch", he was attempting to create a Shenmue game he succeeded.
I think the game loop is very tight it incorporates the old systems and reworks them to be linked together, I see Yu Suzuki most here.
The story was disappointing, but not nearly as "bad" as it is claimed to be. Especially considering this game was written by a staff of 3 writers compared to the originals that had writing staffs orders of magnitude greater it turned out way better than it should have.
Combat is fun, but flawed has major room for improvement in the next entry with the base battle system already built it won't be hard to make it much, much better.
I never wanted Shenmue to be a shitty Walking Dead telltale experience or a TLOU or Life Is Strange, I like Shenmue for being a game that is story focused, but also having fun core gameplay systems that are unique underneath and I vehemently disagree to the core fiber of my being that game systems should have been cut for more or better story that would make it a very bad game.
I is still my thought Shenmue 3 is a game that lacked resources and it's not Yu Suzuki or his team that is fully to blame, they delivered something much better than expected with the financial and manpower resource they had available to them. That being said, it is not perfect, it has flaws, but I beleive Suzuki and his team have the ability to improve they are not set in a state, they like any human get better with practice and more resourcefulness. Shen 4 needs a larger writing staff and motion capture the most imo.

completely agree
I prefer to have a real Shenmue game VS having more story but witha game like Life is Strange, TLOU or something else.

In the end all S3 shortcoming comes from lack of resources, Suzuki still haven0t lost his touch, with AAA budget he would probably take the entire vdieogame industry to the next level...again.

 

[Jigen]

In the end all S3 shortcoming comes from lack of resources, Suzuki still haven0t lost his touch, with AAA budget he would probably take the entire vdieogame industry to the next level...again.

I wouldn't go that far, but he is still very good at what he does. Glad to find someone like-minded.

 

[lavrentis]

Yu isn't out of touch.

He must have been under so much pressure to deliver, and he did.

He and his team have done amazingly well.

Not enjoyed a game so much since I played Shenmue II.

Fallout 3 is probably the nearest to that.

 

[lavrentis]

When I look at other so called modern open world games they feel like they are on rails and you can't do anything.

I think damn, thank God Shenmue III is not like this.

 

[GhostTrick]

When I look at other so called modern open world games they feel like they are on rails and you can't do anything.

I think damn, thank God Shenmue III is not like this.

What ? Shenmue III is fairly closed though. Not only areas in Bailu are really segmented in the begining but there's bo backtracking possible. I wonder what open world title you played to say those felt "on rail" while Shenmue III isnt.

 

[mjqjazzbar]

Niaowu unfortunately feels pretty dead and confined to me, especially compared to other open world games. It’s very corridor-like and the lack of NPCs and areas of doesn’t really help. I do prefer Shenmue’s organic quest structure and the lack of wayfinding marks, though even those items could be incorporated just a little bit to make the game slightly more welcoming.

 

[lavrentis]

What ? Shenmue III is fairly closed though. Not only areas in Bailu are really segmented in the begining but there's bo backtracking possible. I wonder what open world title you played to say those felt "on rail" while Shenmue III isnt.

Didn't really explain myself well, but this guy seems to get what I mean. Time stamp already there.

 

[GhostTrick]

Didn't really explain myself well, but this guy seems to get what I mean. Time stamp already there.

Your timestamp doesn't seem to be working.

 

[Dietsoap]

Your timestamp doesn't seem to be working.

It brought me to 7:20, so it may just be your browser or something. I'm guessing you're on mobile.

 

[Dehone]

Yu kind of is out of touch since he isnt a gamer but the issue is more poor implementation of its features than anything. Yakuza/Judgement(but also other non similar games) have many similar elements but does a lot of them better

Stamina system

Balancing honor and seriousness

Mini games/arcade

Side quests

NPC interactions based on your reputation
Voice acting: the intentionally awkward voice acting and writing needs to go. This isnt 1999 anymore. We cant get by on snatching up a janitor to punch in a few lines or somebody who simply has a good radio voice but zero acting experience. I never would've been as attached to Arthur Morgan, Clementine for TWD or even Solid Snake/Boss is every line was delivered with Ryo-like dryness. Even indie titles have stellar voice acting today and legit, seasoned voice actors in almost every game. Hell im pretty sure I heard Johnny yong bosch in S3

 

[mjqjazzbar]

If they haven’t studied Yakuza they definitely should reconsider

 

[Nigel]

I keep thinking about this thread's question, as it's a good one.
I don't mean this in some cheeky manner, but may it also be worth asking: Was YS "in touch" when he made the original games?

To use an odd genre comparison, but return to the point, take Quentin Tarantino (henceforth QT). Though QT appreciates the Marvel Cinematic Universe, he refuses to film digitally and tends to find inspiration from classic films.
Video games are a younger creature, whatever media influenced them. I'd think we can all that claim as a fact.

That said, I think of two related questions:
a. What is YS's relation to the past of video game history? If anything, I sense he's more so nodding to his career with Sega and his own past works.
(If S3 taught me anything, esp. with what was lost in localization, we probably underestimate his sense of humor in all of this. S2 flirted with it more, but he may be growing cheeky in time.)

b. Does YS concern himself with contemporary gaming? As we know, not in any direct sense. Back to that QT analogy: though QT watches modern works, a key difference, you know he'll stick to his guns.

Does this mean YS is a hipster, ? Maybe, but that's always going to be out of touch (or at least not cater to the norm).

 

[Dehone]

Of all the things in the game and someone is worried about camera slider sensitivity... maybe I'm old/don't see the issue but does that really impact on anything?

Seems like a valid complaint to me especially when a bunch of people here were complaining about the logo and the font for 3 a year ago

 

[mjqjazzbar]

lol i really don’t care about the logo. It grew on me. Imo it looks great in Japanese

 

[spud1897]

Seems like a valid complaint to me especially when a bunch of people here were complaining about the logo and the font for 3 a year ago

The logo I can get the complaint and also the inconsistencies in various logos being used. Personally they shouldn't have changed it but it is what it is.

But where does it boarder from a genuine complaint, eg not enough story, to just silly nitpicks that have no bearing on the quality of the game.

Eg a menu screen doesn't have significance on the quality of the game.

Translation quality definitely does, as an example

 

[GhostTrick]

Didn't really explain myself well, but this guy seems to get what I mean. Time stamp already there.

Alright, I got the right timestamp. Still doesn't get the point here. Shenmue 3 is a pretty closed and segmented game. I don't see it being any special when it comes to open world titles. In fact, it's even a step back compared to Shenmue II on some aspects.

The logo I can get the complaint and also the inconsistencies in various logos being used. Personally they shouldn't have changed it but it is what it is.

But where does it boarder from a genuine complaint, eg not enough story, to just silly nitpicks that have no bearing on the quality of the game.

Eg a menu screen doesn't have significance on the quality of the game.

Translation quality definitely does, as an example

I disagree about the "nitpick" complaint. An experience is a package as a whole. Yeah, being greated by Shenmue 3's amateurish menu doesn't give that special feeling. And it's not like it's expensive to make either.

There are important complaints indeed... and less important ones.

 

[spud1897]

Alright, I got the right timestamp. Still doesn't get the point here. Shenmue 3 is a pretty closed and segmented game. I don't see it being any special when it comes to open world titles. In fact, it's even a step back compared to Shenmue II on some aspects.




I disagree about the "nitpick" complaint. An experience is a package as a whole. Yeah, being greated by Shenmue 3's amateurish menu doesn't give that special feeling. And it's not like it's expensive to make either.

There are important complaints indeed... and less important ones.

While I do get the complaint about the menu it really doesn't massively impact the experience. Who in their right mind remembers a game menu after the event?

I agree it doesn't look great, the previous 2 were fine and I'm not sure why they didn't do another like those.

First are foremost in any gaming experience for me is how the game plays, does it deliver an enjoyable time, does it tell a good story.

Then controls, as I've played some games with terrible controls over the years. Last Guardian, while good had rubbish controls imo.

It all comes down to the playing of the game. A menu (barring the actual in game ones as they can mess things up) or camera slider doesn't impact a gaming experience for me. For others it might, that's their view, but one I really don't understand

 

[Thomasina]

A lot of bullshit responses in this topic. A lot of people are lying to themselves out of their irrational dedication and fanaticism to Suzuki and Shenmue.

Shenmue 3 is a bad game. It's not just a bad game by modern gaming standards, but it's a bad game by Shenmue standards.

Shenmue 1 and 2 weren't about grinding. Shenmue 3 has implemented excessive grinding to the point it detracts from what we've come to expect out of a "Shenmue feel" or "Shenmue experience".

I think Ys Net could have made a good game on the budget they had, but the project was plagued by bad decision making.

The whole food system should have been scrapped, and that's not at all "like Shenmue". The whole gambling thing should have been sorted out. Some of you are saying "Asia" as in all Asian countries have strict gambling laws? Shenmue 1 and 2 just re-released 2 years ago and it didn't have this enormous run-around token system. It had normal gambling with the rewards being money.

Don't talk about "tight budget" when the game has the ridiculous "Face off" game. A team on a tight budget isn't wasting resources on that pointless, nonsensical crap.

We waited 20 years for this series to continue and it seems like the project got off track and lost focus for a bunch of nonsense that has nothing to do with what was great about Shenmue. There's no rational reason to have misteered this project after the base that was established in 1999 and 2001. Shenmue 3 should have been a basic continuation of the first 2 games, focused and tight. Instead we got this neandering mess that just isn't fun to play.

 

[B-Man]

I suppose that he is "out of touch" so to speak, but he's not trying to be in touch. It's a little bit strange to use a new Shenmue game as an example to illustrate why he's out of touch since the Shenmue games were always their own thing and didn't follow any pre-existing formula. I see it more as Yu being true to himself and making games the way he wants to rather than trying to conform to some homogenized "modern gaming standards." This is for the best, as I certainly did not want Shenmue III to be a GTA clone.

If anything, the game already suffers from some modernizations that are not for the better, such as the new side quest system and the new QTE button prompts. The only area in which I felt the original games were really in need of modernization was the movement and camera system, and Shenmue III delivered there. You now have analog control with the left stick and full camera control with the right stick, along with options to invert either axis. As for the complaint about lack of camera sensitivity options, I fail to see how that matters at all in a game like Shenmue.

Please be objective. I know we are all diehard fans.

If you're saying that I should try to forget that I'm a Shenmue fan and look at it from the perspective of someone who either has never played Shenmue or just never liked it, well, I don't really think that I can do that. And frankly, I don't see why I should have to. No matter what, Shenmue is never going to be some best-selling mainstream franchise at this point. I see no reason for them to bastardize the experience just to conform to some arbitrary gaming standards.

While I really did love my time with Shenmue III, I can definitely acknowledge that it's far from perfect. But of all the criticisms I can think of, not being modern enough is sure as hell not one of them.

 

[mjqjazzbar]

A lot of bullshit responses in this topic. A lot of people are lying to themselves out of their irrational dedication and fanaticism to Suzuki and Shenmue.

Shenmue 3 is a bad game. It's not just a bad game by modern gaming standards, but it's a bad game by Shenmue standards.

Shenmue 1 and 2 weren't about grinding. Shenmue 3 has implemented excessive grinding to the point it detracts from what we've come to expect out of a "Shenmue feel" or "Shenmue experience".

I think Ys Net could have made a good game on the budget they had, but the project was plagued by bad decision making.

The whole food system should have been scrapped, and that's not at all "like Shenmue". The whole gambling thing should have been sorted out. Some of you are saying "Asia" as in all Asian countries have strict gambling laws? Shenmue 1 and 2 just re-released 2 years ago and it didn't have this enormous run-around token system. It had normal gambling with the rewards being money.

Don't talk about "tight budget" when the game has the ridiculous "Face off" game. A team on a tight budget isn't wasting resources on that pointless, nonsensical crap.

We waited 20 years for this series to continue and it seems like the project got off track and lost focus for a bunch of nonsense that has nothing to do with what was great about Shenmue. There's no rational reason to have misteered this project after the base that was established in 1999 and 2001. Shenmue 3 should have been a basic continuation of the first 2 games, focused and tight. Instead we got this neandering mess that just isn't fun to play.

I really dislike the focus on selling items and tokens. I’m not gonna disagree with that. Not gonna agree with you swingin at people and their intentions, however much you disagree with them.