110 Industries & Yu Suzuki

Yu's comments on the feedback were pretty reasonable, IMO. Quite correctly he doesn't want to strip Shenmue of its character or make it braindead to appeal to players who don't "get" the series at the moment, but it's not going to be an easy task to find an accommodation that suits newbies and traditionalists.

It's actually heartening to hear he's moved on from pondering about adding quest markers and is thinking more deeply about what it means to reinvent Shenmue for both audiences. Read into that what you will.

I've suggested in other threads that the way forward might be to break the linearity of progression in F.R.E.E Quest portions of the game and allow Ryo to follow up on multiple story objectives at once, coupled with branching quest design we've seen already in parts of Shenmue II.

Combined with refined combat, beefed up RPG mechanics, a well presented story, and a deep, activity-rich game world, the best things about Shenmue will surely shine. It's a big ask from a content creation perspective, though.

Just making a Shenmue-skinned Yakuza would be terrible, as even that series hasn't really gotten over its "Point A to Point B to Point C"-itis. If there was literally one thing I'd take from Yakuza, it's the concept from some of the later titles where you could accrue different types of XP doing ordinary things and engaging with the game world.

As for the "no comment" and what lead into that interview cul-de-sac, lol. No smoke without fire, I say. 🤷‍♂️
 
Spaghetti said:
Just making a Shenmue-skinned Yakuza would be terrible, as even that series hasn't really gotten over its "Point A to Point B to Point C"-itis. If there was literally one thing I'd take from Yakuza, it's the concept from some of the later titles where you could accrue different types of XP doing ordinary things and engaging with the game world.
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I haven’t played a lot of Yakuza titles but in Judgement they have a reputation meter for certain NPC’s across the map. Doing specific tasks for them rewards you with special perks and abilities. When I first read about the rapport system I thought it would work like that. It’s a mechanic I think really fits in with Shenmue’s established systems and rewards players that want to do extra tasks.
 
Rikitatsu said:
I'm hoping he wouldn't put too much stock in non-fan feedback.

I realize they want to sell the game to a larger audience, but most of these people want it be like Yakuza, and then promptly complain about how it's poor man's Yakuza.

One of the reasons Shenmue 3 was great was because it's still Shenmue, and there's nothing like Shenmue yet.
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I feel the same way about this, i'm hoping Yu-san wouldn't put too much stock in non-fan feedback, like you said most of these people want it be like Yakuza. I have nothing against Yakuza, i even want to play all Yakuza games but Shenmue is a different franchise.

I became a Shenmue fan because of the different, unique and special things that i only see in Shenmue, if all these unique things disappear then i think i will not like that much.

Sure it can be a good game with a nice story but it will lose the charm that i can only find in the Shenmue games, this is the reason i said i hope the investigation, clues and notebook about the gameplay continue in all Shenmue games, it is like detective games and i love this so much, this is one of the things about the identity and essence of the Shenmue series to me.

Yu Suzuki will probably try to do new and different things for Shenmue IV and i’m okay with that, trying different and new things is a good thing, but i just hope that some of the most unique and special things about Shenmue doesn't get lost along the way.

I feel that for Shenmue IV the Shenmue essence and identity will be in the game, but we will probably see many new systems and other things as well, i feel that it will be the most different game in the Shenmue franchise.
 
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I think they could actually use a lot of the mechanics from the RPG Kingdom Come Deliverance.
You can have different mission outcomes in that game, depending on what dialogue options you chose
or depending in what kind of time frame you arrived at specific places or if you found or didnt found specific NPCs.
A lot of the mission main goals, can be reached in different ways, depending on your playstyle
and which path you chose.

You can also choose if you want to be more of a fighter or more of a talker
and what fighting style you prefer. You still have 3D direct combat scenes
but you are only good with the combat mechanics you trained.
You have actual developing character values for hp, skill, talking, fighting, stamina, precision, ...
So basically everything you do actually has some kind of impact on the whole world of the game
and its completely your decision how to approach the goals of each mission.

I think Shenmue should actually go more into that kind of deep RPG direction
to get rid of this linear mission structure.
I think a lot of that RPG stuff would fit the Shenmue world very well
because Kingdom Come has basically the same amount of exploring, talking and fighting as Shenmue.
 
bcdcdude said:
A bit crappy to start the interview with "To say that Shenmue 3 was a little disappointing would perhaps be a bit of an understatement" though (we've gone over this a million times, but still...)
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I thought the same thing. It felt a bit below the belt, to be honest. My absolute biggest pet peeve is whenever the media says something has had a mixed response from fans and critics, but then only goes on to list the negative aspects. I hate how much of the video games media treats a "mixed response" or "disappointing entry" as being synonymous with bad.

It's a shame the interview really didn't tell us all that much (in general too, not just in regards to Shenmue IV), but still cool to have an interview with Yu Suzuki.
 
I'm glad to hear Yu sidestepped the Shenmue 4 questions he wants to focus on Air Twister right now. Its the newer game and with more success with other projects makes Shenmue 4 more plausible. Shenmue will be at the forefront for Yu.
 
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It's good to hear he's checking out modern UIs and has a balanced approach when it comes to adopting mainstream open-world mechanics--because so many of them are completely frictionless and mindless as a result.

Nothing else new in there...but if I have the chance to read something new about S4, I would love to do it.
 
code l name said:
I haven’t played a lot of Yakuza titles but in Judgement they have a reputation meter for certain NPC’s across the map. Doing specific tasks for them rewards you with special perks and abilities. When I first read about the rapport system I thought it would work like that. It’s a mechanic I think really fits in with Shenmue’s established systems and rewards players that want to do extra tasks.
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Haven't played Judgment, but I've always thought if YsNet wanted to return with a more advanced version of the Rapport System for Shenmue IV, they should focus it on Ren, Shenhua, and their friendship triangle with Ryo to colour their interactions, lock or unlock some minor story branches, etc.

As for perks and abilities, I'd probably prefer that tied to training, levelling up, and story progression tbh. Really think they should look again at the Skill Tree idea they dropped during development of Shenmue III.
 
bcdcdude said:
Here is the Game Rant interview mentioned last week: https://gamerant.com/yu-suzuki-interview-shenmue-3-lessons-shenmue-4/

For those playing Suzuki bingo, "If there’s an opportunity to make another game" has made the cut! A bit crappy to start the interview with "To say that Shenmue 3 was a little disappointing would perhaps be a bit of an understatement" though (we've gone over this a million times, but still...)

Interesting stuff, although nothing major we don't already know. One thing I found interesting is that they have a database of feedback on what works and what doesn't from Shenmue III. There's also mention about making Shenmue IV more welcoming to newcomers. With that in mind, I can see the game having two experiences; an authentic "Shenmue" mode similar to what we're used to and a simpler mode for those who want markers, extra help etc.

For what it's worth, i'm not against that as i'm all for accessibility in gaming; I just hope that the optional stuff is just that. I definitely welcome an updated UI (or at the very least an options system that works!)
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I don't know if it's a good news.
Having a database full of "trash feedback" the haters created, surely will not help to make Shenmue 4 a real or good Shenmue experience, but more a watered down yakuza / gta game (the thing that those people want) :(
 
Honestly most of shenmue 3 is fine. Suzuki just needs to rework the ui and take feedback on the story for the next game, which he hasn't talked about yet, which makes sense I guess. But he should also be talking about improving interactions with side characters and optional storylines, which were extremely basic in 3. Hopefully feedback on those fronts has reached ys.
 
mjqjazzbar said:
He basically said he doesn't want Shenmue to stop having the investigation-as-a-puzzle as the main gameplay hook, so I think the Point A to Point B stuff will be handled quite a bit differently.
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Yes.

It can, and has, been done better in Shenmue II, so I'm hopeful it'll be the same again without the burden of creating something from scratch as was the case in the original game and Shenmue III, and if we're lucky even go a step further.
 
Suzaku said:
I don't know if it's a good news.
Having a database full of "trash feedback" the haters created, surely will not help to make Shenmue 4 a real or good Shenmue experience, but more a watered down yakuza / gta game (the thing that those people want) :(
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Getting feedback and sorting that out is always a good sign!
I did like the overall experience, but honestly there are objective issues in S3.
Battle system lags, stamina mechanic simplified with stocks of black garlic and repeating / slow story progression with terrible writing, makes S3 not up to S1-S2 standards.

The fact Yu took the chance to hear players feedback to make a better game makes me very happy! :)
 
Suzaku said:
I don't know if it's a good news.
Having a database full of "trash feedback" the haters created, surely will not help to make Shenmue 4 a real or good Shenmue experience, but more a watered down yakuza / gta game (the thing that those people want) :(
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Dont worry, it won't happen. I had the same though when the apple/banana merry day, since then I learned that YS wisely rejected using a nasty Elder Scrolls-type worldmap swarmed by icons, task list, etc. in favour of the natural events unfolding. If the team haven't conceded the world map you can absolutely discard GTAfication.
 
murdiaries said:
Getting feedback and sorting that out is always a good sign!
I did like the overall experience, but honestly there are objective issues in S3.
Battle system lags, stamina mechanic simplified with stocks of black garlic and repeating / slow story progression with terrible writing, makes S3 not up to S1-S2 standards.

The fact Yu took the chance to hear players feedback to make a better game makes me very happy! :)
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Yep i fully agree with this post
 
murdiaries said:
stamina mechanic simplified with stocks of black garlic and repeating
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I'm playing Shenmue III now and i'm not using only black garlic, i'm using a lot of different foods, Black Garlic is not even the best food in the game, it is good but is not even the best.

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The thing about black garlic in my opinion is not a design fault, is up to the player to choose how they want to play the game, if the player wants to choose to buy just black garlic then that's their choice, i'm not doing that so i'm having a different experience with the game.

Look at all the foods i have in the game now, and some of these foods are a lot better than the black garlic, and i always pick the banana and apple in Shenhua's house, this is how i want to experience the game, if people want to buy only black garlic then that's their choice, i view the situation this way.

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Sure Shenmue III is not perfect, and for Shenmue IV some things needs improvements, but this thing about Black Garlic i don't agree, i respect your opinion of course, i'm just saying why i don't agree.

Here is the full list of the foods in the game and how much HP we gain with each food.

https://shenmue.neoseeker.com/wiki/Food
 
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Hiki said:
I'm playing Shenmue III now and i'm not using only black garlic, i'm using a lot of different foods, Black Garlic is not even the best food in the game, it is good but is not even the best.

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The thing about black garlic in my opinion is not a design fault, is up to the player to choose how they want to play the game, if the player wants to choose to buy just black garlic then that's their choice, i'm not doing that so i'm having a different experience with the game.

Look at all the foods i have in the game now, and some of these foods are a lot better than the black garlic, and i always pick the banana and apple in Shenhua's house, this is how i want to experience the game, if people want to buy only black garlic then that's their choice, i view the situation this way.


Sure Shenmue III is not perfect, and for Shenmue IV some things needs improvements, but this thing about Black Garlic i don't agree, i respect your opinion of course, i'm just saying why i don't agree.

Here is the full list of the foods in the game and how much HP we gain with each food.

https://shenmue.neoseeker.com/wiki/Food
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Black Garlic is cheap and readily available everywhere, never felt the need to go after other foods, even at hard.
 
Rikitatsu said:
Black Garlic is cheap and readily available everywhere, never felt the need to go after other foods, even at hard.
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It was your choice, Fried Shaomai is cheaper as well and is better than the black garlic, other foods that are better than the black garlic you can find in Bailu Village.

It is the player choice, i view this way, but if other people view other way it's okay.
 
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