110 Industries & Yu Suzuki

If we're being hyper specific, the Yu Suzuki interview said "probably $20 million". Whether he's rounding up or down is at your own discretion.

I've also found the source of the Yen figure I was talking about earlier, it's from a YouTube comment on IGN Japan's post-release sit down with Yu, Keiji Okayasu, and Hiroaki Takeuchi. I'm assuming the figure is sourced from the video, but it's pegged at 1.34 billion Yen which I believe was around $12 million circa 2019, which is backed up by Spud's old post here:

In the recent sit down video with IGN Japan I'm sure youtube subtitles said it came in at about $12million including the kickstarter money. So around $5million in external investment.

If the Epic deal went straight to Deep Silver then I'd suggest alot of this was already covered before the game went on sale.

I'd wait until it's been translated properly to confirm.

Don't believe Switch's summary of the sit down mentions this figure, so can't verify how correct it is.
 
If we're being hyper specific, the Yu Suzuki interview said "probably $20 million". Whether he's rounding up or down is at your own discretion.

I've also found the source of the Yen figure I was talking about earlier, it's from a YouTube comment on IGN Japan's post-release sit down with Yu, Keiji Okayasu, and Hiroaki Takeuchi. I'm assuming the figure is sourced from the video, but it's pegged at 1.34 billion Yen which I believe was around $12 million circa 2019, which is backed up by Spud's old post here:



Don't believe Switch's summary of the sit down mentions this figure, so can't verify how correct it is.
I forgot about that. I do wonder whether that later $20m figure covered marketing etc and the $12m was the dev budget.

That's a question for an interview haha.
 
here comes the toxic "nagoshi defence force"...
goodbye to the peaceful discussion. :rolleyes:




You are a liar truck and you know it.
You have a grudge after all these years because when I posted real japanese data from japanese source (it's all still saved on this site unfortunately for you), your pathetic argument were destroyed, and now everytime I mention Yakuza, you jump at me.

If you have problem with me, use PM, don't ruin the discussion to everyone with your pathetic trolling

1. I'm not defending him; I'm giving you shit for the hard-on you have for the guy, for some reason.
2. Real Japanese data? Like the one I posted in this post?


As per the site, linked in the article: https://nlab-itmedia-co-jp.translat..._sl=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp

That is why it is supported by adult users as a series with unique fun that is different from other games. "Ryu ga Gotoku" has become a million hit in total including the Best version, and "Ryu ga Gotoku 2" has won the Excellence Award at the 2007 Japan Game Awards, and is highly popular and highly evaluated as a game.

And as per your own post, WHERE YOU POST THE NUMBERS (and I will admit; I NEVER saw this post by you, way back when you did it; good to see some concrete Japanese numbers):


Yakuza 1 (3 releases, lifetime sales from 2005 to 2008): 883.179 copies

Your numbers are for Japan ONLY, as corroborated by this site: http://garaph.info/softwaregroup.php?grid=47

So we don't have figures for the rest of the world and we may never get them... but if you think the game didn't sell at least 117,000 for the rest of the world, I don't know what to tell you. All of the sales figures stop just one year after release, so we can't even know if THOSE are accurate, as we don't know the length of the print runs.

I don't, "live for internet arguments," like you do; I speak the truth and or report the truth. You posted the charts? Great! What you neglect to mention is that it's Japan only; that's manipulating shit to tell a lie, in other words, a bunch of crap, no different than an American pastor.

People don't have to disparage things and tell lies (of which you do). I have no idea why you have such a massive hard-on for the guy and the series, but it's ridiculous. @Sonoshee has been vocal on here and Twitter constantly, about how Sega should pay the same amount of attention to 'mue as they do to RGG (which I agree with), but she has never once torn a strip off of the series or takes time to bash it at every opportunity like you do (and like another poster whom I won't mention).

This constant, "us against them," mentality is ridiculous: as I and tons of others have shown (even on the Dojo), you can like both series without pitting them against each other.

And I agree to stop this back and forth, but stop being disingenuous to have things fit your POV.
 
Gonna draw a line under the posts above as it's clearly getting heated. No more on Yakuza/Shenmue wars and personal beef, please.

I forgot about that. I do wonder whether that later $20m figure covered marketing etc and the $12m was the dev budget.

That's a question for an interview haha.
This is what I'm thinking. Both figures sound reasonable, so I wouldn't at all be surprised if this were the case.
 
Unfortunately I can't remember the precise source where Yu said that, but it was mentioned even here in the dojo.

DS that forks $10 million I think it's beyond the realm of possibilities.
The real money in that $20 million figure came probably from Epic like you also said, but it was a DS-Epic things only, YSnet never saw those money.
And in the end the Epic deal didn't helped our cause, since Deep Silver basically got those money and run away, leaving us with no Shenmue 4 and with a bad statement "Shenmue 3 is niche", probably doing ever more damage to the Shenmue brand.


About stretch goals, after DS came in, some goals were reached (most to show they expanded both bailu and niaowu), but some things were cutted, like the character perpective system, the high ground battle system and Baisha.
Magic Maze, the last goal at $11 million wasn't implemented.


Of course that's a over-semplification because Deep Silver budget arrived late during the development, but if we really had a development budget around $15 million, there wouldn't be all those compromises, even the lack of throws that is the result of poor motion capture tools YsNet had, that was something they could've easily solved if they had a budget that big.

If we count instead a dev. budget of $5 million KS + 3-4 million from DS, then things like the lack of throws, area cut etc make sense.
I disagree, making games is more expensive than we think despite having an engine and tools to make things easier.

The figure of $12m that @Spaghetti reminded me of from 2019 could make sense if the $20m Yu Suzuki referenced in 2020 had the whole project together including marketing and other work outside of the development itself. The Epic money was paid direct to DS as you stated so YSNET didn't see anything of that.

Also keep in mind they spent 70% of their time (Ryan Payton 2020 quote from my part 1 interview) building the whole thing from the ground up to get things working and all the systems into place. I suspect they had to make some very difficult calls in what to leave and what to put in. Also by the image you've linked it could suggest (though this is guess work) that they had a dev budget of atleast $10.5m by the last stretch goal they added. So that $12m figure wouldn't seem too out of the realms of possibility.

So by that factor if everything were equal (it's not but humour me a little here) then 70% of $12m is $8.4m on the games systems etc leaving $3.6m for whatever else was left.. So that's not alot to make 2 fully open areas + castle, 2 VO's, mocap etc. It explains, in my mind anyway alot of the compromises that had to be made within Shenmue 3.

I fear this topic might be going off rails a little but happy to continue this in the Shenmue 3 area as I find this stuff particularly interesting.
 
1. I'm not defending him; I'm giving you shit for the hard-on you have for the guy, for some reason.
2. Real Japanese data? Like the one I posted in this post?


As per the site, linked in the article: https://nlab-itmedia-co-jp.translat..._sl=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp



And as per your own post, WHERE YOU POST THE NUMBERS (and I will admit; I NEVER saw this post by you, way back when you did it; good to see some concrete Japanese numbers):




Your numbers are for Japan ONLY, as corroborated by this site: http://garaph.info/softwaregroup.php?grid=47

So we don't have figures for the rest of the world and we may never get them... but if you think the game didn't sell at least 117,000 for the rest of the world, I don't know what to tell you. All of the sales figures stop just one year after release, so we can't even know if THOSE are accurate, as we don't know the length of the print runs.

I don't, "live for internet arguments," like you do; I speak the truth and or report the truth. You posted the charts? Great! What you neglect to mention is that it's Japan only; that's manipulating shit to tell a lie, in other words, a bunch of crap, no different than an American pastor.

People don't have to disparage things and tell lies (of which you do). I have no idea why you have such a massive hard-on for the guy and the series, but it's ridiculous. @Sonoshee has been vocal on here and Twitter constantly, about how Sega should pay the same amount of attention to 'mue as they do to RGG (which I agree with), but she has never once torn a strip off of the series or takes time to bash it at every opportunity like you do (and like another poster whom I won't mention).

This constant, "us against them," mentality is ridiculous: as I and tons of others have shown (even on the Dojo), you can like both series without pitting them against each other.

And I agree to stop this back and forth, but stop being disingenuous to have things fit your POV.


wait, so you held a grudge against me for 2 years, and you didn't even bother to read my original post back then?
And now that you recognized your mistake, you're still trying to accuse me of manipulate those data because I didn't state the obvious (japanese top 500 = japanese sales)?
That's low.

read better, all the data you need is there, there is nothing to add
tracking doesn't stop "after 1 year"

get your facts straight before accusing other to be liars.
 
I disagree, making games is more expensive than we think despite having an engine and tools to make things easier.

The figure of $12m that @Spaghetti reminded me of from 2019 could make sense if the $20m Yu Suzuki referenced in 2020 had the whole project together including marketing and other work outside of the development itself. The Epic money was paid direct to DS as you stated so YSNET didn't see anything of that.

Also keep in mind they spent 70% of their time (Ryan Payton 2020 quote from my part 1 interview) building the whole thing from the ground up to get things working and all the systems into place. I suspect they had to make some very difficult calls in what to leave and what to put in. Also by the image you've linked it could suggest (though this is guess work) that they had a dev budget of atleast $10.5m by the last stretch goal they added. So that $12m figure wouldn't seem too out of the realms of possibility.

So by that factor if everything were equal (it's not but humour me a little here) then 70% of $12m is $8.4m on the games systems etc leaving $3.6m for whatever else was left.. So that's not alot to make 2 fully open areas + castle, 2 VO's, mocap etc. It explains, in my mind anyway alot of the compromises that had to be made within Shenmue 3.

I fear this topic might be going off rails a little but happy to continue this in the Shenmue 3 area as I find this stuff particularly interesting.

now that you mention it, I remember that we discussed about the $12 million figure, but it wasn't clear if the translation was correct or not.

about the image, it was simply their kickstarter stretch goal reused to show how things changed.
this is the original:


as you can see, it reached 11 million as well.
yeah we can continue on the shenmue 3 subforum..
 
I've also found the source of the Yen figure I was talking about earlier, it's from a YouTube comment on IGN Japan's post-release sit down with Yu, Keiji Okayasu, and Hiroaki Takeuchi. I'm assuming the figure is sourced from the video, but it's pegged at 1.34 billion Yen
Interesting that the commenter mentioned an estimate. I had another watch through of the video & looked at the transcript but can't find any specific mention of the S3 budget (or even Kickstarter) in the interview itself, just that various decisions were made with the limited resources in mind.
 
It is amazing that some people still have hopes that Sega might step in and help Yu and the franchise out. It would be great if they did so. Their money would certainly help but I doubt that new age Sega would be interested in doing it. The old Sega that tried to innovate and take lots of risks died along with the DC in 2001. The new Sega is just into profits without taking any risks.

They want to play save and earn as much money as possible. They are also not even interested in using their franchises properly. They have so many classic arcade franchises in their sleeves that are not used properly. Modern consoles are more than capable enough to run these games why aren't they releasing compilations of their arcade classics?

It hurts to say that because I think that Sega and Shenmue would be still the perfect match it would be foolish to rely on Sega. The future of the Shenmue franchise lies somewhere else. Sega is not the type of investor Yu-San should be looking for.
 
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How come they will palm off various franchises like House of the Dead, Panzer Dragoon, Streets of Rage, Sonic the Hedgehog etc on other developers, but they can't do the same with Ys Net with Shenmue and put their weight behind it?

It can't be *that* much of a fincancial risk, especially compared to 1 and 2. 3 was done on a limited budget and they have a framework in place now.

It just sucks.
 
For me TGS is the big one. It seems like the most likely time and place for an announcement especially with all the 110 stuff. They are acting like they are dying to announce something and a timeframe seemed to be agreed but then pulled, the whole we have a big reveal that was conveniently timed for the end of the anime then it just didn't happen screams they are being held back.

Part of me wonders that with the anime season 2 being disrupted due to the crunchyroll / toonami buyouts and restructuring that might have had a knock on effect. When you have so many different parties involved with the same IP it doesnt seem too far out of the realm of possibility that all involved parties must be on the same page before something can happen.

Sega, Toonami, Crunchyroll, YsNet and potentially 110, even possibly Shibuya all having some finger in the pie would dictate this. Perhaps what they had to show wasn't deemed good enough and things were delayed for them to have a better first showing. Cedric would have done the same for S3 were it not for the kickstarter kinda forcing them into releasing alpha build material...

Now Air Twister is out YsNet have to be working on something and the whole 110 " YS is our best mate for some reason " can't be for no reason.
 
How come they will palm off various franchises like House of the Dead, Panzer Dragoon, Streets of Rage, Sonic the Hedgehog etc on other developers, but they can't do the same with Ys Net with Shenmue and put their weight behind it?

It can't be *that* much of a fincancial risk, especially compared to 1 and 2. 3 was done on a limited budget and they have a framework in place now.

It just sucks.

actually the licensed franchises like House of the dead remake, PD Remake, SOR 4, Space Channel 5 VR etc. are the result of what they initially did with Rez HD and later Shenmue 3, when they realized they could license their IP to other developers without risks and without making any kind of effort or investments.

In fact in all those games Sega does nothing, outside a very bland supervision just to make sure they don't damage completely the brand.

I think that the "licensing" initiative is one of Sega's biggest failure, and many of those amateurish clones should not exists, but at least they don't block the Shenmue license.
 
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How come they will palm off various franchises like House of the Dead, Panzer Dragoon, Streets of Rage, Sonic the Hedgehog etc on other developers, but they can't do the same with Ys Net with Shenmue and put their weight behind it?

Panzer Dragoon was such a low budget title that it doubled it's development costs in sales in the first weekend on Switch alone. Likely the reason the same team got House of the Dead. These games can be finished in under an hour and as they are more visual remakes than anything very little needs to be spent on scripting, pre production etc. Streets of Rage being the outlier by being a brand new game, but it was extremely well executed selling over 3 million copies and Sega didn't need to lift a finger other than fill out the paperwork for the license agreement.

Trust me if Sega could make an easy profit on the Shenmue name they would've done it already. Same reason we haven't got a remake of Panzer Dragoon Saga but just the rail shooters. Would actually require a decent budget to get that game done and they don't fancy taking the risk.
 
How come they will palm off various franchises like House of the Dead, Panzer Dragoon, Streets of Rage, Sonic the Hedgehog etc on other developers, but they can't do the same with Ys Net with Shenmue and put their weight behind it?

It can't be *that* much of a fincancial risk, especially compared to 1 and 2. 3 was done on a limited budget and they have a framework in place now.

It just sucks.
Isn’t that what they did with Ys Net? Some of those games didn’t turn out so great, or didn’t receive particularly big budgets (Panzer Dragoon, HotD). They’re not throwing money at every game they license. They can’t even be bothered to hire a team to make Sonic Mania 2, which would be the sequel to one of their best-ever games period.
 
Yeah, but didn't they actually promote those games as if they were Sega products? I swear they were the publiser for most of them? With Shenmue 3 they basically acted like it didn't even exist.
 
they kinda "promoted" on social with few posts, nothing more.
Sega wasn't the publisher for any of those titles, the Sega logo doesn't even appear in those games, apart for the legal stuff.
 
they kinda "promoted" on social with few posts, nothing more.
Sega wasn't the publisher for any of those titles, the Sega logo doesn't even appear in those games, apart for the legal stuff.

It would only help Sega in the long run to promote their IPs even if they don't have any involvement. If the game is successful you could then make the sequel and keep all the money in house, but we are talking about Sega though.
 
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