Any word on the when the console patch (XB1 & PS4) is coming?

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Here's a bloody stupid question. How the hell do you get a game going if there's no source code?
Not really a stupid question. It's seems like its incredibly challenging porting a game without the source code. From what ive gathered from other no source code projects like Kingdom Hearts and Phantom Dust, it involves reverse engineering the binaries of a retail copy. Im oversimplifying but that's the gist of it though with Shenmue maybe having the source code of the Xbox version of S2 helped the porting of S1.
 
Not really a stupid question. It's seems like its incredibly challenging porting a game without the source code. From what ive gathered from other no source code projects like Kingdom Hearts and Phantom Dust, it involves reverse engineering the binaries of a retail copy. Im oversimplifying but that's the gist of it though with Shenmue maybe having the source code of the Xbox version of S2 helped the porting of S1.

Sounds like a complete pain with any number of issues that could go wrong.

I've spoken to a developer friend who said they would have had something minimal in source code but not much at all. He said what they did would have been a right pain in a team that small.
 
I think they were referring to source code for various Dreamcast libraries, not the overall source code of the game. So the game is running and it will periodically call on some libraries that are kind of like little self-contained programs that execute some functions that need to happen over and over, thus streamlining the whole process. They didn't specify what these libraries did other than generally referring to them as Dreamcast libraries, so perhaps for example there might have been a library that handles the rendering of objects when seen through a transparent or translucent surface. If they didn't have the source code for that library, they would have to write new code that hopefully re-creates that same result when rendering the image.
 
I think they were referring to source code for various Dreamcast libraries, not the overall source code of the game. So the game is running and it will periodically call on some libraries that are kind of like little self-contained programs that execute some functions that need to happen over and over, thus streamlining the whole process. They didn't specify what these libraries did other than generally referring to them as Dreamcast libraries, so perhaps for example there might have been a library that handles the rendering of objects when seen through a transparent or translucent surface. If they didn't have the source code for that library, they would have to write new code that hopefully re-creates that same result when rendering the image.
Very interesting, when you put it like that it makes sense. Seems like Shenmue was incredibly hardware dependant.
 
Working in the tech sector, I can really appreciate how hard it must have been for them to work with little to no documentation and none of the original staff around. Would be a nightmare to work around (indeed that's normally what happens, you have to just work around it and try your best to figure things out). Been in those places myself and know it's no fun at all.
 
Seriously... how do you mess up this port like this? Clearly rushed out to beat the big titles
This. Really finding it concerning that anyone got banned for the justified slating for the products being rushed, and things really did not help much with the public relations between the admins and anyone having genuine problems with the game's quality.
 
That's just the thing. I don't understand why Sega felt they needed to rush this out the door. If they didn't want to compete with RDR2, Spiderman, etc., they could have just slated the release for January or February. That way, it still would have been released months before Shenmue 3. I'm sure that those of us who have waited a decade and a half or longer for anything Shenmue-related to be released wouldn't have cared one bit.

Think about it. We're Shenmue fans. We practically have to have developed patience by now. I just wish they hadn't released an unfinished product in August with no guarantee that it will ever be perfect. I'd easily be willing to wait longer for it to be released in the first place if it meant that it got the treatment it deserved and did justice to Yu Suzuki and his team's original work.

This. I would have been fine with either a Christmas 2018 or a 2019 release. The backlash would not have been as bad if it didn't rush out the way it did.
 
Well some people are acting like the world has ended.

Someone mentioned the issue around communication: At least we know there's a delay (hopefully no more delays but that's up to SEGA) imagine the outcry if they said nothing and we got to the end of today and no patch dropped. I'm glad they said something but it is the least they could do.

The bugs I've experienced I did not find game-breaking and generally did not ruin my experience. Shenmue 2's music is well off but I put that in the back of my mind. I fully intend on replaying once fixed. Some however have found bugs that have ruined their experience and that is their opinion, mine doesn't apply to all and nor does anyone else's. Some may agree some may not.

Should they have been released like this and are there ethical issues around the practice here? Yes, it is common gaming practice to patch games now and I wish it wasn't. But beyond e-mailing the companies directly there isn't much we can do.

I stand by one of my earlier posts. I am glad they are fixing it and if there is a delay fine, they need to get it right. I fully appreciate the goodwill of some is falling away & understandably so. There is the JP release not that far off and they will be working to fix these for that.

Also on the whole reviews have been positive from new and old players alike. 1st week sales were good by what the charts tell us, though we have no solid numbers yet. Will the issues scare off new players between now and the patch we won't know for sometime but it is a concern but one I don't think has actually been founded in substantial evidence yet. If it is then I will gladly be proved wrong. Shenmue was always going to appeal to a niche market within gaming and thus sales drop off. With hopefully new news on Shenmue 3 coming between now and release we might see little spikes in HD sales on top of the JP release which was the no1 pre-order on amazon JP early on.

Sega unfortunately did not anticipate (all my opinion) the demand and early success of these games and when they saw the pre-orders and Shenmue 3 announcement pushed it out in a window without major releases. They now need to stick to their word (someone quoted earlier) and deliver what we all want.

We all want what's best for the series, I appreciate the issues around us being free QA but I'd rather do it and give the public a fixed full experience than one that isn't and help secure the longevity of the series. Yes a buggy release doesn't help this but a fixed one certainly can.

Excuse the Friday morning essay!

Consider my goodwill already gone with what had transpired before and during my week-long ban. I am boycotting anything Sega-related after this debacle.
 
This. Really finding it concerning that anyone got banned for the justified slating for the products being rushed, and things really did not help much with the public relations between the admins and anyone having genuine problems with the game's quality.
I'm right there with you. The team here tried to stifle all of the (incredibly justified) negativity, I'm guessing in the name of protecting whatever relationship the board has with Sega/D3T. What's that doing for us? We're going to mute our members in exchange for what benefits?
 
Good morning,

Consider this a verbal for thread de-railing.

If there are issues with how things are done here then feel free to drop any moderator a line and we'd be happy to help.

For the sake of transparency you will across many posts see that critical constructive discussion has been welcome. Foul mouth tirades are not.

I've said my piece many times about the issues in these games. Speak to Sega via email if you wish to take them further.

Back on topic hopefully there's more news on the patches this week. Maybe a new pc one ready for a larger console one?

What is clear is that they are working to mend the issues. Even if the wait is frustrating.
 
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Good morning,

Consider this a verbal for thread de-railing.

If there are issues with how things are done here then feel free to drop any moderator a line and we'd be happy to help.

For the sake of transparency you will across many posts see that critical constructive discussion has been welcome. Foul mouth tirades are not.

I've said my piece many times about the issues in these games. Speak to Sega via email if you wish to take them further.

Back on topic hopefully there's more news on the patches this week. Maybe a new pc one ready for a larger console one?

What is clear is that they are working to mend the issues. Even if the wait is frustrating.

How is this considered derailing? I have seen other users get a week-long ban for A LOT less (i.e. Kodama from his recent post pre-ban) for voicing similar concerns WITHOUT the profanity. Can't exactly drop anyone a mod a line if you are on the Dojo's block list because the user in question somehow hurt the mods' feelings. Either you are completely transparent, or you're not, and you can't have it both ways. For a group that is supposed to be a "community," I did not get that type of feeling at all.

Coming from personal experience, the frustration stems from the fact that VERY FEW times the companies would listen to us, and even then, I do not trust D3T nor Sega to redeem this mess completely. I paid $30 for a game to work properly. D3T and Sega violated that. If that is the grounds for giving me a ban from the Dojo, all this would do is give you a PR problem and paint the mods and admins as marketing mouthpieces that censor any legitimate negative feelings about what has transpired.
 
I think I’ve been very vocal about my issues with the games and no mod has warned me or told me to stop. I think it’s a matter of presenting your complaints respectfully or not poisoning threads.
 
I think I’ve been very vocal about my issues with the games and no mod has warned me or told me to stop. I think it’s a matter of presenting your complaints respectfully or not poisoning threads.

The problem I saw is they can ban WITHOUT warning and it's at mods' discretion, and that is actually stated in the site's TOS. What pissed me off at the time of the ban is, "Oh, this bug is not a big deal. Not everyone feels that way." The tone that was conveyed to me felt condescending, and that flew me off the rails. Hard to show respect for anyone that antagonizes you either intentionally or unintentionally.
 
Just so it's clear that we are working as a team here, not to eradicate criticism or peoples opinions on these certain subjects, but we also need to keep this place free of pages and pages of constant moaning and abuse. It's not just the things that you might be saying, it's the way that you are saying them, giving a complete disrespect for both the teams working on the games (still) and the moderators trying to do a job here to keep Shenmue fans level headed, giving constructive feedback and not making rash decisions like boycotting SEGA for example, or publicly spewing hate, profanity and general rudeness to other members here that are just trying to keep the peace.

Again, we're not here to censor opinions, only the way in which you go about making them.
 
Let me just chime in as well and clarify that nobody has been banned without any kind of warning. Anyone who has been banned these past few weeks has received at least 1 official warning (and in a lot of cases, a verbal too). You can look back at post the post history of banned users if you don't believe me. Official warnings come with a yellow banner on the offending post, so you can look and see for yourself.
 
Again, we're not here to censor opinions, only the way in which you go about making them.

LOL! Wha-...oh man oh man, I wish Shenmue Potato Chips were real, 'cuz I'd wanna munch on a few bags of those while pondering this statement over and over.

Look, I'm not one for forum drama, and it's your forum ultimately, but that's just a ridiculous statement to make. I can understand not wanting the community of Shenmue fans to prematurely blow things out of proportion and wreak PR havoc on the Twittersphere, and I can understand wanting some to try to empathize with the plight of d3t and cut 'em some slack.

But isn't that what online forums were meant for, a venue for fans to voice their joys and concerns in their own voice? I musta missed something, but I don't recall people threatening heinous crimes against other members' family members nor do I recall there being a flux of people being egregiously profane with others, so why the warnings and bans? Doesn't that just foment more unnecessary resentment?

No, people were voicing (whether outspoken or not is your opinion) their concerns over the HD re-releases, which by so many counts have been an absolute mess. Some fans are more forgiving, but some less so, especially at the apparent reality that we've fans have paid to be free bug testers for them, when the expectation should be that a paid product should work 100% or damn near it out of the box. It's difficult to be level-headed toward such a thing ya know?

Hey, you can throw me a warning and ban me for this post, I'm prepared for it. I just thought I could give some of my honest 2 cents on the matter.
 
Let me just chime in as well and clarify that nobody has been banned without any kind of warning. Anyone who has been banned these past few weeks has received at least 1 official warning (and in a lot of cases, a verbal too). You can look back at post the post history of banned users if you don't believe me. Official warnings come with a yellow banner on the offending post, so you can look and see for yourself.

Nope, did not get a warning from anyone before mine happened. Check my post history.
 
Nope, did not get a warning from anyone before mine happened. Check my post history.
You got banned for calling someone an asshole and being overall disrespectful to other members - not because of your opinions of the re-releases. Your behavior in said post wouldn't fly on any forum regardless of context and you know that.
 
LOL! Wha-...oh man oh man, I wish Shenmue Potato Chips were real, 'cuz I'd wanna munch on a few bags of those while pondering this statement over and over.

Look, I'm not one for forum drama, and it's your forum ultimately, but that's just a ridiculous statement to make. I can understand not wanting the community of Shenmue fans to prematurely blow things out of proportion and wreak PR havoc on the Twittersphere, and I can understand wanting some to try to empathize with the plight of d3t and cut 'em some slack.

But isn't that what online forums were meant for, a venue for fans to voice their joys and concerns in their own voice? I musta missed something, but I don't recall people threatening heinous crimes against other members' family members nor do I recall there being a flux of people being egregiously profane with others, so why the warnings and bans? Doesn't that just foment more unnecessary resentment?

No, people were voicing (whether outspoken or not is your opinion) their concerns over the HD re-releases, which by so many counts have been an absolute mess. Some fans are more forgiving, but some less so, especially at the apparent reality that we've fans have paid to be free bug testers for them, when the expectation should be that a paid product should work 100% or damn near it out of the box. It's difficult to be level-headed toward such a thing ya know?

Hey, you can throw me a warning and ban me for this post, I'm prepared for it. I just thought I could give some of my honest 2 cents on the matter.

There's a big difference between saying your piece once or twice, and having the same small group of people swinging their diapers around, incessantly egging each other on until each thread becomes a downward spiral of toxicity.

The mods, for the most part, have done a good job of letting people say whatever's on their mind, at least initially, and often a long while after, before saying anything. As mjqjazzbar mentioned, it's not what you say, it's how you say it.

That's also a lesson some mods could learn, before dropping priceless gems like "I'll hear no more of this" *shoulders fur-lined cape, picks up diamond encrusted scepter, and strolls out* I wasn't even on the opposite of that fight and it still pissed me off.

On the whole, they've been friendly and have acted more peopley than policey.

They can warn me or ban me, but pulling the "you can warn me or ban me" card is a bitch move, and the oldest one in the forum book. You are not Che Guevara, nobody is impressed. You know you haven't said anything that merits a warning or a ban.

We all paid for the same game, and we all want it fixed, but if someone's intention is to complain constantly until it gets fixed, they should complain to Sega or on their forums, not in a fan community.

Let me ask you a legit question. Have you read every single post in this thread, the bugs and glitches thread, and the PC Gamer article thread? If you haven't, maybe you should. Maybe you too will have complaint fatigue, and decide that you're suddenly tired of hearing people rant incessantly. I have, and I did.
 
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LOL! Wha-...oh man oh man, I wish Shenmue Potato Chips were real, 'cuz I'd wanna munch on a few bags of those while pondering this statement over and over.

Look, I'm not one for forum drama, and it's your forum ultimately, but that's just a ridiculous statement to make.

I'm not quite sure you understood that statement correctly. Based on the context of my post you should clearly understand that I meant tone, aggression etc in regards to "the way in which you go about making them". If you're being arrogant, hurtful, or hateful in the manner in which you are expressing your opinions, that's a cause for concern. We're happy enough for you to provide your feelings, or disappointment, just do it in a suitable manner.
 
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