Random Shenmue IV Thoughts.

I wish Sega would quit trying to ignore Shenmue and just give Yu a small portion of the Yakuza team + the Dragon engine already. I could see it easily being adapted mechanically for Shenmue and working beautifully.

Unreal Engine seems to be trouble for japanese devs for some reason so I'd hope to see this switch (even though it's highly unlikely).
 
Yeah. I think even though it doesn’t make much financial sense it’s still their franchise and they should be a bit more invested in it.
 
I'm fine with sega acknowledging it and helping out, but I am not fine fracturing the ryu ga gotoku team for it especially with how lofty they have been with their projects lately with all the spin-offs and recent massive genre change. Plus the last time they only did something with a smaller team it was kiwami 1 which is arguably the least polished game they ever made cause it quite literally only reused assets right down to the boss fights and qtes being lifted directly from past games including even the final boss which steals its qtes from 5. I also dont think to try to get these guys up to speed on something that everyone else as YS has the though process on locked down on an engine they never used is going to benefit the team in any way shape or form, like yeah they are from rgg but they basically are just going to be the equivilent of new hires at that point.

Sega's involvement should be more in line of potential outsourcing for smaller things, allowing licensed content to appear like music or games, and generally just smaller scale polish.
 
I wish Sega would quit trying to ignore Shenmue and just give Yu a small portion of the Yakuza team + the Dragon engine already. I could see it easily being adapted mechanically for Shenmue and working beautifully.

Unreal Engine seems to be trouble for japanese devs for some reason so I'd hope to see this switch (even though it's highly unlikely).
Its been used in heaps of Japanese games including Tekken 7 and Street Fighter V (And is being used for FFVII remake). ~The advantage of Unreal is the fact that you should be able to hire from a large number of developers who have used the engine already rather than something bespoke or obscure which takes time to learn and optimise.

However they didn't read this part of the wiki:
 
Am I the only one that doesn't want SEGA anywhere near next Shenmue games ?

They are a company that doesn't take any risks. Imagine if SEGA was involved with Shenmue 4, they might have turned the combat into a turn based combat.(Similar to the upcoming Yakuza game)
They are also incapable of making a great 3D game. That is why Streets Of Rage 4 is a 2D game and that is why their 3D sonic games had a lot of problems.

Also why you people want Dragon Engine ? That is a Yakuza engine and I don't think it works well for Shenmue.
Using Unreal 4 for Shenmue 4 is a much better choice than using an engine that doesn't support the things they want to do in Shenmue.(Day/night cycles , Complex NPC AI, Big cities without loading screens and fully voiced NPCs)
 
Am I the only one that doesn't want SEGA anywhere near next Shenmue games ?

You definitely seem to be in the minority...

They are a company that doesn't take any risks.

False, because...

Imagine if SEGA was involved with Shenmue 4, they might have turned the combat into a turn based combat.(Similar to the upcoming Yakuza game)

... that is ABSOLUTELY taking a risk; they've already alienated half the fanbase and are taking a tried and true formula and are spinning it on its head, with RGG 7.

If that's not risk-taking, I have no clue what is

They are also incapable of making a great 3D game.

BEYOND false, as the Yakuza series has shown.

Then you have Hatsune Miku (whether you like rhythm games or not, they are great titles), HOD series, any other arcade title, etc.

That is why Streets Of Rage 4 is a 2D game and that is why their 3D sonic games had a lot of problems.

The ENTIRETY of SoR IV, is being developed and handled by 2 devs that have nothing to do with Sega; Sega merely gave them license, as they did with 'mue III. Thus yet again, false.

Also why you people want Dragon Engine ? That is a Yakuza engine and I don't think it works well for Shenmue.
Using Unreal 4 for Shenmue 4 is a much better choice than using an engine that doesn't support the things they want to do in Shenmue.(Day/night cycles , Complex NPC AI, Big cities without loading screens and fully voiced NPCs)

Bang on; UE4 works best.
 
Dragon Engine has nothing to do with Sheenmue or its needs. It sounds logical, but it doesn't hold up when you actually compare what the two series are going for. It also makes no sense to jump engines after one game.
 
I wouldn't change to Dragon Engine for following games - but that engine had all the components to make a Shenmue game off the shelf. It has a good if brawlery fight engine, large number of NPCs that move around the city, complex conversation options and side quests, mini games, fully voiced NPCs (on the whole - depends on the game some are more text based than others but thats not an engine limitation), large areas without loading screens (I don't know if you've played 6, Kiwami 2 or Judgement but the older games run on a previous version of the engine that runs on PS3 and 4 whereas the newer ones updated the engine to run on PS4 only). It does depend how difficult it is to work with but as its a complete engine you could start making the game including areas etc. and it would be very playable. Afterwhich you can tweak the fighting engine to work for it rather than starting with a giant sandbox and having to spend time writing concepts like conversations into the engine.

The game and a lot of its visual astetics suit Shenmue very well (I know they aren't the same game by any stretch but Unreal Engine was developed originally for FPS and Action games. Yakuza is a hell of a lot closer than Unreal Tournament to Shenmue). It's like saying Sega have a great Baseball game and you'd use that to make a cricket game.

I felt Yu spent a whole heap of time and money making "Shenmue" in the unreal engine whereas if they'd used the Yakuza engine they could of been 6 months on down the line from where they started day 1.

That said however the Dragon Engine has been developed to make Yakuza games only. From memory I don't ever recall any area you can walk over other than concrete or steps so its possible its not very tuned to do non urban environments. Also I don't know how much documentation would of be written to allow a group of people who know nothing about it to use it.

However other than forklifts I can't think of something Shenmue does from a technical standpoint that the Yakuza games haven't done.
 
Something people need to understand is that while Dragon engine is a pretty worthwhile engine and can do some absolutely insane stuff especially seen in judgment's mood and atmosphere near the game's pretty tonally distinct 3rd act, its also an engine that only RGG studio knows how to use and even for them it took them multiple games to really catch up on alot of features and tweaks to make it work in contrast to the fairly consistent quality the past games had from game to game on the gameplay front. There is literally no benefit to lending it out unless RGG are the ones making it exclusively, cause like even if ysnet stepped in then they'd just be a bunch of people that need to be taught this complicated tech and slow down production, and would we really want a new game from Shenmue that isn't developed by the people that actually make Shenmue.

All around just not worth it, at all. Even past that technical stuff its just too many cooks.
 
Yep. You'd need support from RGG, and RGG is already working on enough of their own stuff. I just can't see Nagoshi wanting to take on Shenmue unless Yu Suzuki personally asked for his assistance.
 
Yep. You'd need support from RGG, and RGG is already working on enough of their own stuff. I just can't see Nagoshi wanting to take on Shenmue unless Yu Suzuki personally asked for his assistance.
Honestly I wouldn't put it past Nagoshi to outright decline the offer anyway, hes the CCO of sega and he is stil hands on for a years franchise that's arguably going into its most important projects since the one that started it all, its not a small feat to release a brand new spin off thats soft confirmed to be a franchise and then on a year later release a massive genre shift mainline entry with a totally new protagonist and mostly new cast that runs the risk of alienating loads of fans. Let the man focus on his own projects, saying hes busy is an understatement.

Its like how alot of people say similar stuff about throwing Naoki Yoshida on any square enix property in the works, like the dude is amazing and so is his team but they are busy with insanely ambitious projects especially since alot signs are pointing towards him at least being heavily involved in the next mainline entry in FF. Let the guys do their own stuff.
 
Dragon Engine, or even the previous one only make sense before Shenmue III announcement and if it would have been co developed by Sega. But as many has stated before, it is easier to find people to work for a non propietary engine, and Unreal 4 can create really impresive graphics
 
for shenmue 4 i think they should take chances and try some experimental things in the game.

they could expand on the flashback scenes but make these bigger.. for example they could show different locations in different periods of time and some of these could be playable(?)

i know im quoting myself but the new star wars game, star wars jedi fallen order, has some excellent playable flashback scenes which contribute to the story. not really a big spoiler but..
in them you re-learn jedi force techniques you learnt as a child, which help you in the game.


i can imagine that working really well with ryo remembering or re-learning kung fu techniques & advice from his father which can be applied to the story.

importantly..i feel we also need to re-introduce ryo's father to the story. they need to re-establish the emotional connection between ryo and his father because at the moment, i feel the importance of what ryo is fighting for is becoming lost. its almost becoming just a catch phrase.
 
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Honestly I wouldn't put it past Nagoshi to outright decline the offer anyway, hes the CCO of sega and he is stil hands on for a years franchise that's arguably going into its most important projects since the one that started it all, its not a small feat to release a brand new spin off thats soft confirmed to be a franchise and then on a year later release a massive genre shift mainline entry with a totally new protagonist and mostly new cast that runs the risk of alienating loads of fans. Let the man focus on his own projects, saying hes busy is an understatement.

Its like how alot of people say similar stuff about throwing Naoki Yoshida on any square enix property in the works, like the dude is amazing and so is his team but they are busy with insanely ambitious projects especially since alot signs are pointing towards him at least being heavily involved in the next mainline entry in FF. Let the guys do their own stuff.
totally. I also really can’t see a situation where Yu Suzuki isn’t in charge of Shenmue. It’s Suzuki’s game. Nagoshi has said as much. To Nagoshi, Shenmue is a game he was a part of many years ago. I can’t see why he’d want to be in charge of something that he didn’t create and I believe that is why he is uninterested in even discussing Shenmue in interviews. It’s Yu Suzuki’s game.

Ys Net needs more time and maybe some more staff, but they don’t need to switch engines.
 
I wouldn't change to Dragon Engine for following games - but that engine had all the components to make a Shenmue game off the shelf. It has a good if brawlery fight engine, large number of NPCs that move around the city, complex conversation options and side quests, mini games, fully voiced NPCs (on the whole - depends on the game some are more text based than others but thats not an engine limitation), large areas without loading screens (I don't know if you've played 6, Kiwami 2 or Judgement but the older games run on a previous version of the engine that runs on PS3 and 4 whereas the newer ones updated the engine to run on PS4 only). It does depend how difficult it is to work with but as its a complete engine you could start making the game including areas etc. and it would be very playable. Afterwhich you can tweak the fighting engine to work for it rather than starting with a giant sandbox and having to spend time writing concepts like conversations into the engine.

The game and a lot of its visual astetics suit Shenmue very well (I know they aren't the same game by any stretch but Unreal Engine was developed originally for FPS and Action games. Yakuza is a hell of a lot closer than Unreal Tournament to Shenmue). It's like saying Sega have a great Baseball game and you'd use that to make a cricket game.

I felt Yu spent a whole heap of time and money making "Shenmue" in the unreal engine whereas if they'd used the Yakuza engine they could of been 6 months on down the line from where they started day 1.

That said however the Dragon Engine has been developed to make Yakuza games only. From memory I don't ever recall any area you can walk over other than concrete or steps so its possible its not very tuned to do non urban environments. Also I don't know how much documentation would of be written to allow a group of people who know nothing about it to use it.

However other than forklifts I can't think of something Shenmue does from a technical standpoint that the Yakuza games haven't done.
Do yourself a favor, try Ancestors. UE4 can be used for anything a dev wants. Amazingly and maddeningly it can be used for awesome facial expressions too. So much emotions are in Ancestors making items and so on. So well done. No, the problem is, Yu Suzuki needed to hire just one younger American, not Japanese animator that had worked with UE4. So much would look way better it's not funny. And I don't think it'd even cost more. Characters I mean, not the environments. Those are done very well in the 3rd.
 
The companies and people who were hired as UE4 experts seem like they have that kind of experience, though. Look up Historia. They’ve made some amazing tech demos and four or five people from there appear to have worked on Shenmue 3.
 
The companies and people who were hired as UE4 experts seem like they have that kind of experience, though. Look up Historia. They’ve made some amazing tech demos and four or five people from there appear to have worked on Shenmue 3.
I guess in the end it all came to the money needed. I get it that the whole tribe in Ancestors is just one char. Be it male or female as far as the face goes, so that sort of made it easier. It's still sad that they made that proto human come alive, the joy, the disappointment... It's not that Shenmue 3 has no facial expressions, I even captured for YouTube to make sure people knew they did, but it's all few and far between. Oh well, it's done now. In hind sight, as I played S3, I told myself, you wanted it in 2018 you moron, they should have put it out in 2020 in the fall if need be, but those things should have been in. I've no huge problems with the ending one little bit, but these quality things probably, sadly decided way too many people against the game.

1000% all the cheap stuff like 170 shops selling garbage shouldn't have existed. Secret bird hunt could have been done the same exact way without. No one would say anything about not having almost duplicated move scrolls. Long streets that don't really add to the story much, but I bet cost plenty to create and populate. Many of the same mistakes were made as he made for 1&2 IMO. All that said, I love Shenmue 3 to death as it is, and I can't wait for Shenmue 4.
 
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