The Epic Games Store thread

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Moved discussion here at @jibby’s request.

The Ooblets controversy has far exceeded what happened to Shenmue 3.

Check out this article:


Death threats, doctored screenshots, Discord invsasions, over a game that only had 1,100 backers to begin with.
 
It would be nice to see how people would react to someone being just honest, and not being grandstanding dicks that want the cake and eat it too.
"As a small studio Epic gave us a monetary offer we found too difficult not to take, I hope you understand and give the game we worked so hard to make a try".
But they go on a condescending rant to the people that gave them money calling them entitled, toxic, and suggesting they're stupid for not wanting to download a launcher.
It reminds me so much of this:
  • The bad news is that you have to play the game that you paid for in a launcher that you don't want and is against your interest as a consumer (oh and you are toxic and entitled).
  • The good news is that we got money.
And they talk about entitlement ?
 
All the epic games polemic it's so silly.

I mean I can understand wars like SEGA vs Nintendo; Microsoft vs Sony but... Steam's launcher vs Epic games launcher? Really guys? A launcher? A war for a fucking pc launcher? Of course steam is great but if you want to play a game you will do it on epic or origin or whatever.

Its like you with Shenmue. You waited 3, 7, 9, 12, some of you 18 years. Some of you will say "oh, I dont like epic... I wont buy it..." ? No, right? Because you want it to play it with all your heart.

Well, thats it then.
 
2 cents I'll toss into here.

1.) Grown adults should not be acting this way over video-games. The immaturity+vitriol and death-threats is not needed in the discussion space over something that is a preference issue at the end of the day.

2.) Developers should hire PR experts when engaging in any crowdfunding endeavors. Especially if the dev's lack the experience/and or nuances to hold themselves above reproach.
 
It would be nice to see how people would react to someone being just honest, and not being grandstanding dicks that want the cake and eat it too.
"As a small studio Epic gave us a monetary offer we found too difficult not to take, I hope you understand and give the game we worked so hard to make a try".
But they go on a condescending rant to the people that gave them money calling them entitled, toxic, and suggesting they're stupid for not wanting to download a launcher.
It reminds me so much of this:
  • The bad news is that you have to play the game that you paid for in a launcher that you don't want and is against your interest as a consumer (oh and you are toxic and entitled).
  • The good news is that we got money.
And they talk about entitlement ?
lets be honest here dude. Many people are indeed toxic and overreact.
That's just facts.
That article was super well written and touched on many any great points.
People are free to keep their position inspite of anything tho.
Denial goes a long way in keeping people from opening their minds and (perhaps) be flexible and understanding, instead of just boiling egos.
 
-lets be honest here dude. Many people are indeed toxic and overreact.
-Denial goes a long way in keeping people from opening their minds and (perhaps) be flexible and understanding, instead of just boiling egos.
- People are toxic, but in this case the one that "started it" was the developer, calling the people that gave their game a possibility to be made toxic and entitled, while at the same time moralizing about what they should care or not care about. It's just hypocrisy, we all know it's just about money, just say it, and move on, you can't have it both ways.
I don't give a shit about EGS, but at the same time I understand why people can be mad, it's trying to buy itself into a market (and a market that is monopolizing one), and as a big picture goes, it's far more important than one game.
  • People understand, that's why they call out the hypocritical move of someone calling people that made their game possible "entitled" for not wanting to be part of a predatory practice (that might be common place as you want), because the guy they gave money got more money.
  • The internet is indeed a place that doesn't work as the real world, people are more aggressive, insult more, and all you want. There's also a "power imbalance" between the ones that choose to make it part of their IRL persona and the ones that remain anonymous.
Choosing is a key word, be it for monetary reasons or the streamlining of the internet with social media and some big players, the internet had this nature.
If that's the price to pay for not being a censored place, with social points attached to a real person like in china, I think it's a bargain.
 
- People are toxic, but in this case the one that "started it" was the developer, calling the people that gave their game a possibility to be made toxic and entitled, while at the same time moralizing about what they should care or not care about. It's just hypocrisy, we all know it's just about money, just say it, and move on, you can't have it both ways.
I don't give a shit about EGS, but at the same time I understand why people can be mad, it's trying to buy itself into a market (and a market that is monopolizing one), and as a big picture goes, it's far more important than one game.
  • People understand, that's why they call out the hypocritical move of someone calling people that made their game possible "entitled" for not wanting to be part of a predatory practice (that might be common place as you want), because the guy they gave money got more money.
  • The internet is indeed a place that doesn't work as the real world, people are more aggressive, insult more, and all you want. There's also a "power imbalance" between the ones that choose to make it part of their IRL persona and the ones that remain anonymous.
Choosing is a key word, be it for monetary reasons or the streamlining of the internet with social media and some big players, the internet had this nature.
If that's the price to pay for not being a censored place, with social points attached to a real person like in china, I think it's a bargain.
I understand your points and they are reasonable. Yet those same reasons don't justify the agregate of reactions we're seeing.
You said well. People feel safe behind a keyboard or a phone and they say whatever they want thinking there are no consequences. That kind of "unresponsability" allows them to just vent their emotions at will.

Thats not what matters here tho.
Because when we actually see the whole picture here, what is the difference to the user?
Download another laucher. that's it.
It is inferior to Steam I get it. But it's just that!
It's not like you have to by another console or the games are more expensive or whatever. Its another laucher. period.

I don't think people should take the business decisions devs make to the extreme like they do. As if they are in charge or something. Even when you give a lot of money to the kickstarter, developers and promoters are the bosses and thats not changing.
Just cause you gave money for them to make the game, doesn't mean that you now know whats best for it and what decisions should or should'nt be taken. The responsability devs have, is to finish the game in the best possible of ways.
They don't have to use x or y laucher or make deals with so and so because the bakcers like it or not.
I know the "entitlement" word has ben used a lot yes. But it's really what it is. Entitlement.

Ps. In that article, they werent referrint tho their backers as toxic. they were speaking in a more general way. they spoke fact I think.
cheers
 
Because when we actually see the whole picture here, what is the difference to the user?
Download another laucher. that's it.
It is inferior to Steam I get it. But it's just that!

I don't think people should take the business decisions devs make to the extreme like they do. As if they are in charge or something. Even when you give a lot of money to the kickstarter, developers and promoters are the bosses and thats not changing.
Just cause you gave money for them to make the game, doesn't mean that you now know whats best for it and what decisions should or should'nt be taken. The responsability devs have, is to finish the game in the best possible of ways.
They don't have to use x or y laucher or make deals with so and so because the bakcers like it or not.
I know the "entitlement" word has ben used a lot yes. But it's really what it is. Entitlement.

Ps. In that article, they werent referrint tho their backers as toxic. they were speaking in a more general way. they spoke fact I think.
cheers
I already answered that, do you think that making users participants of a predatory practice trivial ?
It's legitimizing the move that some see as immoral or just behavior that shouldn't be rewarded.
You can think of it in a more general way, most people wouldn't care if EGS started making their own exclusives, or funded new games, instead they grab already funded games, with a bulk of players already bought in (and strategically targeted, so these are not regular people, but guys that go out of their way to find new games). It's a "good" move for epic, it's not a good move for the consumer nor it benefits them in any way, and I applaud people that stand against it.
Why should people reward it by implicitly being a part of that. Look at GamePass, they don't got the flack of EGS, because instead of restricting the consumer (that already paid for a product), they opened up the options for consumption.
Again, what is more entitled, a developer that got loan money from a bunch of backers expecting them to incur in practices they don't want to incur because they just got more money (and again, calling them toxic and entitled), or people that paid for a game wanting to play in the way they want ?
BTW, yes, the domain of "gamers" includes people that often back videogames, so making it broader doesn't make them less assholes.
Again, that's why I put the office UK Clip, "I have some bad news and some irrelevant news". They already were rewarded by EGS giving them money to grab a piece of a caught playerbase that already paid for a product.
And read what I said in the first post, would the reaction be the same if they just went:
"As a small studio Epic gave us a monetary offer we found too difficult not to take, I hope you understand and give the game we worked so hard to make a try".
Instead of going:
"Everyone that doesn't like our approach is toxic and entitled, even though they don't benefit in virtually any single way".
 
The developer was talking to their small community of backers (less than 2,000). The Internet hate brigade seized on their post and turned it into a call to arms for every anti-Epic troll on the internet to join up and attempt to slander and ruin their livelihoods. What happened to them is indefensible. If you don't want to play their game on the Epic Game Store, don't play it. What they said is irrelevant. What they wrote was also written in a very light hearted, tongue in cheek manner. If that's that offensive to you, I dunno what to say.

The reaction from both sides got totally out of hand, but the trolls, of whom I assume 99.9% didn't actually back the game, who invaded their Discord, made fake screenshots, and spent hundreds of hours attacking them definitely have no excuse for their pitiful behavior.
 
The developer was talking to their small community of backers (less than 2,000). The Internet hate brigade seized on their post and turned it into a call to arms for every anti-Epic troll on the internet to join up and attempt to slander and ruin their livelihoods. What happened to them is indefensible. If you don't want to play their game on the Epic Game Store, don't play it. What they said is irrelevant. What they wrote was also written in a very light hearted, tongue in cheek manner. If that's that offensive to you, I dunno what to say.
????
 
i dont really understand what the problem is with that Ooblets blog post.
i'm seeing hundreds of downvotes on their Youtube videos and hundreds of comments like
"hell yeah free game for us pirates", "enjoy the fortnite money you f*ckers", "dont support these horrible people",
"i'm too toxic to like this game". people faked screenshots and videos and shared them to create more damage.

... so i mean we dont need to discuss if there are toxic people or communities in the gaming area,
everyone can easily see that there are toxic people.
even on Era(!) there is a trending thread with 29 pages about the toxic level regarding discussions about Epic related stuff
and how this stuff is overblown.
i mean how many toxic discussions does it need that even people on Era cant hear it anymore?

and back to that blog post, what did he say that is wrong?
he just said that they can make a better game with the Epic money
and that there are more serious topics on this planet that need your attention than raging about a game launcher.
thats not an insult directly targeted at you or something
hes just saying that it feels like everything Epic related is being treated like some war crime nowadays
even though there arent any victims. they can make the game better for everyone and
people who want to play on Steam can still play it eventually, they just have to wait longer.
but still even these people will get a better game. also hes not saying anything like "just install EGS you ***holes!"
nobody needs to buy or support anything, we are talking entertainment products, nothing more.
but why does it always result in people losing their mind and insulting devs and publishers in the worst possible way?

and hes not saying that all gamers are toxic, hes saying that there are toxic gamers
who feel like they are entitled to receive everything they want and nothing less otherwise it will have consequences.

thats not farfetched, thats the truth. again, nobody is saying that you have to support this game or that you have to install EGS or otherwise you are a bad person. he didnt say "we hate gamers" or "**** off backers!"
nobody said that.
so why do people feel the need to answer with threats and insults?
who is forcing you to have anything to do with this game? i'm pretty sure that more than 70% of all the comments
are from people who were never interested in this game at all. they are just looking for a reason to punish someone
because then they can feel like they won something as a group. a united group against the evil evil devs and publishers ...

i read the blog post like three times and i dont feel insulted because
i'm pretty sure hes not talking about me. its your own choice to feel insulted by his text
and if you feel like hes talking about you, then maybe you should think about that.
 
The game had 1,250 backers prior to that blog post.

Somehow their entire social media is plastered in thousands of negative posts and downvotes.

They didn't 'insult' anyone, other than self-righteous kids hiding behind their computrers who never had any intention of playing the game.

Same thing happened to Shenmue. I'm glad Awesome Japan just ignores everyone because they would've probably written something even worse than what the Ooblets folks released.
 
If you don't want to play their game on the Epic Game Store, don't play it.
I won't.
What they said is irrelevant.
It's not irrelevant, unless you are talking in an existential way and our little life in a floating rock is irrelevant. The post was condescending with a sparkle of asshole thrown in there.
If you are talking about "it's actions what matter", then the action is that they took money in for shady market practice.
If that's that offensive to you, I dunno what to say.
Calling people toxic and entitled is meant to be an offense, I don't care, I will call them out though. If that's offensive to you, I dunno what to say.
and back to that blog post, what did he say that is wrong?
Feeling like you’re owed the product of other people’s work on your terms
That's literally what capitalism is, you buy something, you use it the way you want to use it
and that there are more serious topics on this planet that need your attention than raging about a game launcher.
And having predatory market practices is far more serious than a single game.
also hes not saying anything like "just install EGS you ***holes!"
But he implies that people that don't want to use EGS is because they are stupid:
I know that’s asking a lot but I believe in you and your ability to download a free thing and create a user account
Again with the condescending tone.
but why does it always result in people losing their mind and insulting devs and publishers in the worst possible way?
What about devs being entitled and insulting customers ?
and hes not saying that all gamers are toxic, hes saying that there are toxic gamers
And magically those toxic gamers are the ones that don't like the practice that they are incurring in, convenient. How about there are toxic people, and these guys fit the bill ?
nobody needs to buy or support anything, we are talking entertainment products, nothing more
Well, except the people that already paid for the product and don't want to be associated with business practices they don't stand for. They got the short end of the stick because someone else got money, while they don't benefit in any way.
And even then, it's a wider problem that by rewarding these type of practices, it affects the whole market, in incremental ways.

Imagine you going to a carpenter and pay for them to make you a table, he says ok, come back tomorrow, you come back tomorrow and the guy goes "yeah, a rich guy gave me x10 what you paid for, I'll get you the table tomorrow only a little bit more shitty, if you don't like it you are toxic and entitled, btw it's just a table, there are children starving in africa".
You'd go "well, what a dick".
 
What about devs being entitled and insulting customers ?

where exactly did Ys Net, Deep Silver, the Ooblets devs or whatever call anyone explicitly
an asshole, motherfucker, shithead ...
where did they say that they are going to rape your family or burn your house if you dont support them?
where did they say that you are being forced to support their games or otherwise it will have serious consequences for you?
... they didnt say that anywhere. please check their statements again, especially their phrasing
and then look at the comments from gamers on Youtube, Discord or articles.

do we really have to discuss if there is a difference?
and whats with this entitled thing? no, not every product on this planet is being made for you.
i have no idea where this thought comes from that nowadays everything should fit your personal preferences.
if you dont want to support XYZ then dont buy it, dont watch it, dont play it. done.
who is forcing you to buy any entertainment product? who is forcing you to use EGS?

I know that’s asking a lot but I believe in you and your ability to download a free thing and create a user account

and? is he wrong? everybody can do this if he wants to. where did he say that you have to do it?
he just said that its not hard. its your own choice to think that he is making fun of you.

And magically those toxic gamers are the ones that don't like the practice that they are incurring in, convenient

we are talking about a game with 2000 supporters or something like that. for years they just had their own little community and everything was okay. no Youtube downvotes, no Discord raids, no message bombing.
after that blog post suddenly all of their Youtube comments are full of explicit insults, their Discord channel is getting raided,
and they have thousands of PMs with threats + all the typical Youtube videos about this topic with thousands
of comments. where did all those people come from?
all of these people were 100% interested in this patreon game and would have supported it
if the blog post would have been nicer??? so outside of the 2000 supporters bubble,
this game had like ten million fans who are now angry?
all right, sure.
... come on.

again - i'm pretty sure that more than 70% of all the comments
are from people who were never interested in this game at all. they are just looking for a reason to punish someone
because then they can feel like they won something as a group. a united group against the evil evil devs, publishers
and the evil evil Epic Game Store.
 
where exactly did Ys Net, Deep Silver, the Ooblets devs or whatever call anyone explicitly
I'm not talking about Ysnet, I'm talking about these guys now. Is it better to call people that disagree with your business practices toxic and entitled than calling someone asshole ? Then I'll call them reprehensible hypocritical egotistic moneygrabbers immoral cancerous etc. etc. I find it funny that euphemisms are ok if they don't use a no-no word.
and whats with this entitled thing? no, not every product on this planet is being made for you.
So I can't call out business practices that affect the market as a whole ? Guess what, I can. If you want to be a mindless consumer go ahead.
who is forcing you to buy any entertainment product? who is forcing you to use EGS?
Responded above, the guys that already paid for a product to be made.
and? is he wrong? everybody can do this if he wants to. where did he say that you have to do it?
he just said that its not hard. its your own choice to think that he is making fun of you.
If you already paid for it you have to. We already know it's "not hard", that's why the condescending tone, for something that is against the consumer interest and can be morally reprehensible.
where did all those people come from?
People that see it as a trend and don't see it as a benefit. Why should they keep silent ?
Do you have to be a fan of X to find Y practice unhealthy and anti consumer ?
they are just looking for a reason to punish someone
because then they can feel like they won something as a group.
Does putting an end to predatory practices count as a win ? If then yes.
Do you say the same about people that criticize paytowin, lootboxes, DLC cut from main game, paywalls, etc. ? Why can't they call out what they think it's not pro consumer behavior ?
They can do it, and people call it out.
Again do you think there would be backlash if they just went "yeah, we sold out, sorry".
Or if instead of EGS buying fanfunded games because they are a captive and consuming market, they made their own games, use their money to give consumers a better product or provide better services ?
No one would bat an eye if EGS went, ok we give better revenue share, so games will be cheaper, we also give out free games and our games will be using this platform. But they are trying to buy customers, you might even think it's a healthy alternative, other people don't.

Why can't people criticize something that directly and indirectly affects them, giving them a worse product overall ?
 
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Random Opinions

1. Anyone who is a devoted Shenmue fan refusing to support the game because of Epic Games I call BS. You guys will huff and puff but when the game releases you will be there Day One.

2. Epic Games being apart of PC gaming is a win-win for everybody. Developers that choose Epic get a bigger slice of the pie, even more revenue if they choose the unreal game engine and bonus money for selling on Epic Games exclusively for a limited time. Steam finally has some competition so they are gonna do their best to deliver what customers want to minimize customer loss.

3. I would like to see Shenmue 4 as a permanent exclusive on the Epic Games store. If Shenmue 3 got this kind of funding for a year exclusivity imagine what kind of funding they could get for permanent selling rights. I'm all for the success and continuation of the Shenmue franchise.
 
Why are you offended a two-person development team released a light-hearted statement to their small group of backers?
I'm not offended, I think it's a shitty business practice by part of EGS, and the devs are grandstanding that want to have their cake and eat it too.
Why are you offended that people criticize something they find it reprehensible ?
1. Anyone who is a devoted Shenmue fan refusing to support the game because of Epic Games I call BS. You guys will huff and puff but when the game releases you will be there Day One.
I've already "supported" the game by paying 2875 bucks, and yes I will play it, and yes I think it's a shady business practice by EGS. I'm literally the type of person that EGS was trying to get to by trying to buy marketshare, and part of why people see it as an unhealthy way to behave.
2. Epic Games being apart of PC gaming is a win-win for everybody. Developers that choose Epic get a bigger slice of the pie, even more revenue if they choose the unreal game engine and bonus money for selling on Epic Games exclusively for a limited time. Steam finally has some competition so they are gonna do their best to deliver what customers want to minimize customer loss.
Competition is great, you can have competition without trying to buy marketshare. There are pro consumer ways to do it (and that EGS already does), people call out the bad practice.
3. I would like to see Shenmue 4 as a permanent exclusive on the Epic Games store. If Shenmue 3 got this kind of funding for a year exclusivity imagine what kind of funding they could get for permanent selling rights. I'm all for the success and continuation of the Shenmue franchise.
That's your call, I wouldn't be against Epic financing full on a game to make it exclusive, and having the choice to buy it or not.
Paying for a game that already was paid by a bunch of people it's another type of deal.
 
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