The Epic Games Store thread

[Tosh]

Of course Epic already paid for it, thats the whole reason of that deal?
Epic paid something to make it exclusive and to guarantee a minimum amount of sold copies with their own money.
That money goes to Deep Silver and they can do whatever they want with it. What other reason is there for that deal?
And of course the money of the first 200.000 copies goes to Epic because they paid for them, no one else.
But it doesnt matter because Deep Silver got the money for these copies, its nothing else than a safety deal
because they probably werent sure if the platform would even reach these kind of numbers on its own.
It doesnt hurt anyone. Deep Silver got their advance paycheck and Epic will get some if it back in sale.
Clearly all the companies are okay with this and its no disadvantage for us.

Its not about "We could get these numbers in the future maybe", its about "We can 100% have these numbers here right now".
Of course 1 Mil sold copies without that deal would gain more money for DS but there is still absolutely no guarantee
that the game will reach these numbers. Otherwise there would be no deal.
But with that deal they at least dont have to be afraid that only 50.000 users will buy it
because they already have the money for 200.000 copies.
It doesnt matter if they maybe would have received 5000, 10 000, 20 000 dollars more
because Deep Silver clearly doesnt care. YS Net will still gain more money than they probably ever thought
and they were able to make a better game than they ever thought.

Again, why do we care about things that could have happened and not about things
that are happening. Its the same thing with Borderlands 3.
Do you think a company like Deep Silver / Koch Media, probably the biggest european distributor for games and movies
needs help with their exclusive contracts?

 

[GhostTrick]

Of course Epic already paid for it, thats the whole reason of that deal?
Epic paid something to make it exclusive and to guarantee a minimum amount of sold copies with their own money.
That money goes to Deep Silver and they can do whatever they want with it. What other reason is there for that deal?
And of course the money of the first 200.000 copies goes to Epic because they paid for them, no one else.
But it doesnt matter because Deep Silver got the money for these copies, its nothing else than a safety deal
because they probably werent sure if the platform would even reach these kind of numbers on its own.
It doesnt hurt anyone. Deep Silver got their advance paycheck and Epic will get some if it back in sale.
Clearly all the companies are okay with this and its no disadvantage for us.

Its not about "We could get these numbers in the future maybe", its about "We can 100% have these numbers here right now".
Of course 1 Mil sold copies without that deal would gain more money for DS but there is still absolutely no guarantee
that the game will reach these numbers. Otherwise there would be no deal.
But with that deal they at least dont have to be afraid that only 50.000 users will buy it
because they already have the money for 200.000 copies.
It doesnt matter if they maybe would have received 5000, 10 000, 20 000 dollars more
because Deep Silver clearly doesnt care. YS Net will still gain more money than they probably ever thought
and they were able to make a better game than they ever thought.

Again, why do we care about things that could have happened and not about things
that are happening. Its the same thing with Borderlands 3.
Do you think a company like Deep Silver / Koch Media, probably the biggest european distributor for games and movies
needs help with their exclusive contracts?

I think we have a misunderstanding here. What do you think am I arguing ?
Where did I say now it was wrong ?

I'm telling you the following:
As a fan, if you want to support Shenmue III in the most effective way, buying it on EGS isn't smart because of that deal, since Epic ALREADY PAID. So there's no need to buy it here since that effort goes to waste, as its money Deep Silver already received. So you'd only be covering Epic's expense. Not Deep Silver ones.
If you want to support it in the most effective way, buy it elsewhere, because Epic already paid. Which means Deep Silver already got the money. So give them the money. Not to Epic.

 

[Tosh]

Then we are at one of the first posts again, like always.
Its not a waste because Deep Silver clearly wants it that way. Otherwise there would be no deal.
I dont know what kind of deals you make but most of the time its about having advantages on both sides.
You can still show Epic that their investment wasnt for nothing and you will have no disadvantages,
you will get the same game like everyone else and if you want to play it on PC on release day
you have no other choice than paying Epic. Deep Silver isnt losing your money, they agreed to that Epic contract
so they know 100% for sure and accepted that its part of the deal that Epic will get some amount of it back.
Thats the deal right now to which all companies agreed. There is no need to talk about "but if ..."

So again, why are we talking about alternative universes
when there is only one PC version available on release day and thats on the Epic store.
Or is your best super advice that every PC user should download it illegally?
Because it would be pretty sad to justify illegal downloads just because you dont want to give Epic some of their money back.
Their money helped Deep Silver and Deep Silver helped Shenmue 3.

If the Epic numbers are not a complete disaster, we have a chance that Epic and Deep Silver
could be partners again and next time (without KS) with more advance payment, which means that Deep Silver also
has more money for the development. Thats a positive advantage for the maybe scenario
and its better than no advantage. Of course it wont work if Epic comes on board like 3 months before the release
but if Shenmue 3 is a success on the Epic Store, its more likely to open more doors for the franchise.
And without KS, we need every deal we can get. Without these deals, Deep Silver has to rely 100%
on the believe that there will be enough buyers. No safety option at all.
And now we are at the starting point again.

 

[DigitalDuck]

You can still show Epic that their investment wasnt for nothing and you will have no disadvantages,
you will get the same game like everyone else and if you want to play it on PC on release day
you have no other choice than paying Epic. Deep Silver isnt losing your money, they agreed to that Epic contract
so they know 100% for sure and accepted that its part of the deal that Epic will get some amount of it back.
Thats the deal right now to which all companies agreed. There is no need to talk about "but if ..."

You say it right here: Epic get the money. So buying it on EGS is supporting Epic, not Deep Silver.

So again, why are we talking about alternative universes
when there is only one PC version available on release day and thats on the Epic store.
Or is your best super advice that every PC user should download it illegally?
Because it would be pretty sad to justify illegal downloads just because you dont want to give Epic some of their money back.
Their money helped Deep Silver and Deep Silver helped Shenmue 3.

You realise the game is also available on PS4, right? Pretty sure he's suggesting prioritising the PS4 version instead, since that money actually makes its way to Deep Silver.

If the Epic numbers are not a complete disaster, we have a chance that Epic and Deep Silver
could be partners again and next time (without KS) with more advance payment, which means that Deep Silver also
has more money for the development. Thats a positive advantage for the maybe scenario
and its better than no advantage.

The alternative isn't no advantage, it's that the money goes directly to Deep Silver and they don't need to rely on "if" - they'll already have the money themselves.

Of course it wont work if Epic comes on board like 3 months before the release
but if Shenmue 3 is a success on the Epic Store, its more likely to open more doors for the franchise.
And without KS, we need every deal we can get. Without these deals, Deep Silver has to rely 100%
on the believe that there will be enough buyers. No safety option at all.
And now we are at the starting point again.

You seriously have this backwards. The safe option is to give money to Deep Silver so they don't have to rely on Epic.

There are various scenarios:

1. The game sells poorly (<200k)
- If all copies sold are on EGS, there is no extra support for Deep Silver.
- If all copies sold are on PS4, Deep Silver earn some money (and may even make a profit).

2. The game sells well:
- If all copies sold are on EGS, Deep Silver earn some money on copies >200k sold, and EGS are likely to do a deal in the future; other companies may see the success and also make offers.
- If all copies sold are on PS4, Deep Silver earn some money and make a profit; other companies may see the success and also make offers.

I don't see how buying on EGS is the safe option here - it's only a positive outcome if the game is successful, whereas prioritising the PS4 version has a positive outcome regardless of how successful the game is.

If Shenmue III is a success, it doesn't matter where the sales are. If it isn't a success, then all EGS sales support only Epic and not Deep Silver. The safe option is to prioritise PS4 sales.

You say

There is no need to talk about "but if ..."

and yet your entire argument hinges on

If the Epic numbers are not a complete disaster

To make an analogy:
Buying on PS4 = giving money to a homeless person, hoping that he'll improve his situation.
Buying on EGS = giving money to a guy who gave money to a homeless person, on the basis that he might give more money to the homeless person if the homeless person improves his situation.

 

[Tosh]

You realise the game is also available on PS4, right? Pretty sure he's suggesting prioritising the PS4 version instead, since that money actually makes its way to Deep Silver.

Yeah sure, and all the people who have something against Epic, or who dont have a gaming PC
and who have no problem with paying 60€ again will buy it on PS4 just to support DS and not Epic.
Seems super realistic for the casual community. Not even all the people here in this Shenmue community are doing that.

You say it right here: Epic get the money. So buying it on EGS is supporting Epic, not Deep Silver.

Yes and Deep Silver is totally fine with it otherwise there would be no deal. Why are we talking about what if scenarios
like we know better what Deep Silver wants or doesnt want? I'm pretty sure Koch Media as one of the biggest european distribution companies can handle it on their own.

The alternative isn't no advantage, it's that the money goes directly to Deep Silver and they don't need to rely on "if" - they'll already have the money themselves.

After Metro Exodus and Shenmue 3, whats more likely to happen?
That Deep Silver will go out 100% full risk, fund the whole thing, 15 mil or whatever with no safety options
and just hoping that it will sell or will they look for already existing partners who can secure their back?

1. The game sells poorly (<200k)
- If all copies sold are on EGS, there is no extra support for Deep Silver.

Part of the contract that all companies agreed to. If they think that the Epic numbers are more promising
than just hoping for the best, then its their choice. They willingly agreed to this, it doesnt matter
what would have happened without that deal at that point because there is no going back.

I don't see how buying on EGS is the safe option here - it's only a positive outcome if the game is successful, whereas prioritising the PS4 version has a positive outcome regardless of how successful the game is.

Of course it is. Do you think Deep Silver has a lot of hopes for Shenmue 3 on PC when they are canceling
the retail version in some countries and all of the CE are PS4 only?
Of course they believe more in the PS4 market but this here is a thread about Epic
and not whats the best overall option. I dont disagree that every gamer on this planet should just buy it on PS4.

But still, if Deep Silver feels more safe with already paid PC copies by Epic and is clearly fine with it,
why should i be against it? I have absolutely no proof that it would be a better scenario if they would have declined that deal.

 

[DigitalDuck]

Yeah sure, and all the people who have something against Epic, or who dont have a gaming PC
and who have no problem with paying 60€ again will buy it on PS4 just to support DS and not Epic.
Seems super realistic for the casual community. Not even all the people here in this Shenmue community are doing that.

Nobody suggested anyone buy a PS4 specifically for Shenmue. This is a ridiculous response.

Yes and Deep Silver is totally fine with it otherwise there would be no deal. Why are we talking about what if scenarios
like we know better what Deep Silver wants or doesnt want? I'm pretty sure Koch Media as one of the biggest european distribution companies can handle it on their own.

Nobody suggested Deep Silver aren't fine with it, and you are the only one talking about what if scenarios. This is a ridiculous response.

After Metro Exodus and Shenmue 3, whats more likely to happen?
That Deep Silver will go out 100% full risk, fund the whole thing, 15 mil or whatever with no safety options
and just hoping that it will sell or will they look for already existing partners who can secure their back?

You think there aren't going to be partners interested in funding Shenmue IV if Shenmue III makes 15 million?

Part of the contract that all companies agreed to. If they think that the Epic numbers are more promising
than just hoping for the best, then its their choice. They willingly agreed to this, it doesnt matter
what would have happened without that deal at that point because there is no going back.

Nobody is talking about what would have happened without that deal. This is a ridiculous response.

Of course it is. Do you think Deep Silver has a lot of hopes for Shenmue 3 on PC when they are canceling
the retail version in some countries and all of the CE are PS4 only?
Of course they believe more in the PS4 market but this here is a thread about Epic
and not whats the best overall option. I dont disagree that every gamer on this planet should just buy it on PS4.

... then we're agreed? Why are you even arguing?

But still, if Deep Silver feels more safe with already paid PC copies by Epic and is clearly fine with it,
why should i be against it? I have absolutely no proof that it would be a better scenario if they would have declined that deal.

The current discussion is not about "what if Deep Silver declined the deal?". This is a ridiculous response.

The deal has happened, EGS has paid for advance copies of Shenmue III on their platform. Given this knowledge, it is preferable to buy on PS4. It's that simple. You keep arguing against stuff nobody is saying, and I don't understand why.

 

[Tosh]

This is a ridiculous response.

I think that quote is good enough because i'm not really interested in walking around in circles again.

Fact is, nobody here has any proof that Shenmue 3 would do a lot better without Epic because that scenario doesnt exist.
Its nothing more than speculation. All we do know is that Deep Silver already made money on PC because of Epic,
thats the only fact we have. So i dont know why some fictional scenario is more important.

Fact is, yes the Epic deal would have been better if all of the actual sales numbers would go to Deep Silver too,
but its also fact that this was not part of the deal and that Deep Silver was absolutely fine with that.
Its their own budget, their own money that they will get or not get, its their decision.
They decided that the Epic money is good enough and that console is more promising, now what?

Yes, there are a lot of scenarios where the outcome could be better but it doesnt make sense to always think about
or imagine what would have been the best possible way, because its super unrealistic to always get the best outcome
for everything. If it would be this easy, they would have release Shenmue 3 seventeen years ago.

Yes, if you just want to support the IP Shenmue, you should buy it on PS4.
I dont know who said anything different because this thread here is not about PS4
and its super unrealistic that normal buyers from Amazon and co
will decide to buy a PS4 version instead of the PC version just to support DS
because they have no idea what the difference is, but okay. Lets go right into the Steam, Reddit and Gamefaq boards
and announce that we need them all on PS4 on day one.

 

[DigitalDuck]

Fact is, nobody here has any proof that Shenmue 3 would do a lot better without Epic because that scenario doesnt exist.
Its nothing more than speculation. All we do know is that Deep Silver already made money on PC because of Epic,
thats the only fact we have. So i dont know why some fictional scenario is more important.

Show me the part in this conversation where someone said otherwise.

Fact is, yes the Epic deal would have been better if all of the actual sales numbers would go to Deep Silver too,
but its also fact that this was not part of the deal and that Deep Silver was absolutely fine with that.
Its their own budget, their own money that they will get or not get, its their decision.
They decided that the Epic money is good enough and that console is more promising, now what?

Show me the part in this conversation where someone said otherwise.

Yes, if you just want to support the IP Shenmue, you should buy it on PS4.
I dont know who said anything different because this thread here is not about PS4
and its super unrealistic that normal buyers from Amazon and co
will decide to buy a PS4 version instead of the PC version just to support DS
because they have no idea what the difference is, but okay. Lets go right into the Steam, Reddit and Gamefaq boards
and announce that we need them all on PS4 on day one.

This is the only thing actually relevant to anything we've said and we all seem to agree on it, so I don't understand what the arguing is even about.

Who are you arguing against? Is there an invisible person posting these things that I'm not seeing?

 

[GhostTrick]

I feel the same. Who are you arguing against to @Tosh ?
All your saying is completly out of the discussion. No one is talking about that.

Joel said "Buy the game on Epic Store if you want to support YsNet because of the better cut than PS4" to which I said "No, buy it on PS4 because buying on Epic Store means YsNet is getting no money at all on the first copies bought in advance."

Where am I ? On Dojo. So when I say to people to buy it on PS4, it's because I know some people will buy multiple copies to support the game. If you want to do it efficiently, dont buy them on Epic Store because it doesn't benefits Shenmue since the copies have been paid already. All you'd be doing is paying back Epic.

Are you even reading our posts ?

 

[Real1]

I have used EGS for a while now and I like it a lot. Right now when I'm unemployed and all that, getting two great games for free every week is great! Just now we got Layers of Fear which is a nice horror game. I may not play much on PC but Epic Game Store has managed to get me playing quite a bit. I have a library of like 10+ games already and they're all good games too. Absolutely free.

The fact that a few features are missing and all that doesn't bother me at all. But that might be because I'm not an avid PC gamer. Still though, more money for devs, free games for the users... Yeah, I like it. I wouldn't ever think to download EGS if it wasn't for the Shenmue III trial version, so I'm thankful for that.

 

[Hermit]

I'm past the point of caring at this point. I was annoyed at first, because I didn't want this kind of controversy to surround Shenmue 3 in the build up to it's release, but I'm pretty much over it now.

The way I see it is that the second I seen the Kickstarter of Shenmue mentioned at E3, I was getting this game no matter what platform it was sold on. I never had a PS4, a Steam account and my pc was too outdated to play modern games, so I never had the platform to play it on to begin with, but I was still getting this game.

Basically, when it comes to Shenmue 3, they can sell it wherever the hell they like, I don't care, I would still buy it. I do think some people have taken for granted that this game is actually happening. They need to think back to where we were with Shenmue before E3 2015. Hope had almost gone completely, the series was pretty much dead......and people are going to let a silly thing like a game launcher get in the way of things? come on, it's Shenmue 3! It's the one game we would all jump through hoops to play.

I won't defend the Epic launcher, it's a bare bones piece of crap, but it's the games I care about, especially a game like Shenmue. Once you sign up to the thing, you forget what all of the fuss was about to begin with and feel a bit stupid for getting angry about it and giving those Youtubers views on their over the top videos on the situation.

Also, GOG Galaxy 2.0 pretty much puts all of my issues with the Epic store to bed. Being able to sync all stores into one and have my game collection, achievements and game time in one place is exactly what I have wanted since companies started creating so many different launchers.

 

[pilman]

Went to play Shenmue III this morning and my Epic account was locked out, I created this account not long ago, used a unique password strong (mix of letters/numbers/special characters) and found that my information had been changed, my username, address, country, and someone installed fortnite and had played for 60 minutes. Now I am extremely concerned that whoever was on the account (I don't even play fortnite) if they had committed fraud or used hacks if I now have to worry about my account being banned considering I have a redeemed kickstarter version of Shenmue 3 on there.

 

[jsh020]

Went to play Shenmue III this morning and my Epic account was locked out, I created this account not long ago, used a unique password strong (mix of letters/numbers/special characters) and found that my information had been changed, my username, address, country, and someone installed fortnite and had played for 60 minutes. Now I am extremely concerned that whoever was on the account (I don't even play fortnite) if they had committed fraud or used hacks if I now have to worry about my account being banned considering I have a redeemed kickstarter version of Shenmue 3 on there.

Get into contact with EGS customer support asap, they are actually pretty good from what I have heard.

 

[pilman]

Get into contact with EGS customer support asap, they are actually pretty good from what I have heard.

Get into contact with EGS customer support asap, they are actually pretty good from what I have heard.

I found out that the account is not my epic account, apparently someone used my primary email to open an account.