The Epic Games Store thread

[Tosh]

If you already paid for it you have to.

okay, so thats what 1200 backers, ... lets say if we look at other projects where people refunded because
they had a problem with the project ... its mostly 5-25% of all backers.
so lets say 30% are angry about this, that would be 360 people.
so lets just say it would be realistic that 500 people who backed this game are extremely angry about this deal.

then whats with the thousands of other angry comments from people who are not patreons,
who were never on their Discord channel, who never clicked the like button on any of their videos?
and whats the deal with these typical Youtube rage videos where is absoluteley no discussion at all,
just everything is negative and then the topic is done and bye.

so now you have a angry mob with tens or hundreds of thousands of people on top of
the 700 core backers (who will receive a game with more content because of Epic)
and they are fine with that because they will get more than they backed.
what does this whole thing have to do with anyone else outside of this backer community?
now you burned down a studio with two people who are working on a little indie farm game.
... great. (?) take this you evil people.

 

[shredingskin]

then whats with the thousands of other angry comments from people who are not patreons,

People seeing it as a trend in the market they use and don't like.

and whats the deal with these typical Youtube rage videos where is absoluteley no discussion at all,
just everything is negative and then the topic is done and bye.

It's basically every "news" these days, it sucks, overflow of information and trying to get negative stories because they see it generates more "engagement". Not really a gaming problem.

what does this whole thing have to do with anyone else outside of this backer community?

The same way that allowing dumping eventually leads to market imbalances ?
Fracture marketplace, giving consumers a worse overall experience without getting nothing better in return ? (or on the contrary, worse).
Allowing monopolic practices in a market that is already quite monopolitic by nature.

now you burned down a studio with two people who are working on a little indie farm game.

What burned ? They are doing their game, and they took money that they thought overwhelms the lack of marketshare of their decision. They did a hypocritical PR move, it went wrong for them. They still have the backer money, epic money and their game. Should they get a standing ovation also ? We used to call that "selling out".

I'll take a move from the dick playbook "there is global warming dude, why do you get mad about a dev that made a ton of money ?".

 

[Tosh]

they did the sell out because its a indie studio with two people and Epic is giving them ressources
to be more safe in terms of money and also to create more content.
this discussion about Ooblets was mainly an update for the people who supported that game,
not for people outside of their community who only have a problem with Epic.

they probably expected negative comments from their own community, like i said 300-600 people
and then they could talk about it in their own community, exactly like they did all these years before.
but what happened instead is that a gigantic anti Epic mob raided all of their channels
and basically screamed as loud as they could that this studio is terrible and you shouldnt support them.

even though none of these people had anything to do with this project at all. they didnt even know that this game exists.
but we cant let this one thing slide, no, he said something positive about Epic.
now the studio can create a better game for the core backers and still be on the safe side in terms of money
but this game and the studio will have a bad reputation now because of one deal that has nothing to do
with anyone outside of the 1200 member backer community. this is not EA or Ubisoft or something
who want to sell you lootboxes in a full price game,
this is a studio with two people and that deal is totally reasonable.

 

[Zoyous]

The angry responses to the Ooblet devs' message seem to hinge on misquoting, paraphrasing, putting words in their mouths, leaving out context; so in this light it's clear that there are people with an agenda and they are trying to stoke more anger. Obviously framing it as an outrageous, insulting dismissal of this victimized group of consumers is the only way to keep the fire burning. If not, why not use actual verbatim quotes from their message? Because the true content is somewhat milquetoast, and frankly consists of reasonably true characterizations of the worst elements of gamer culture.

The point is to stoke anger, to get a feedback loop of mutual validation and indignation. If the attempt at humor was tone deaf, the ferocity of anger in response speaks to an expectation of total deference - "the customer is always right" - which most adults who survive in business know is something that is only to be said to customers and is not an actual operational principle. There are problems of entitlement and toxicity in some pockets of gamer culture; avoiding bringing it up will only be of benefit to the abusers who embody it.

Mob tactics get results, but we're going to see that they aren't always the results the mob wants. With things coming to a head this week, I'm sure that a number of people who were previously unaware or indifferent to the situation will now view these devs, and Epic, in a sympathetic light. The problem with using rage for fuel is the risk of undermining one's own self interest in the process. Instead of winning over the hearts and minds of people and growing their ranks, they are going to drive people further away as they descend into an affiliated hard core who lash out with extremist polemics.

Significant numbers of people will side with the devs and with Epic out of disgust with the worst actors. Epic will continue to succeed in their strategy because they have the resources and are more diversified than Valve, who has placed all their eggs in the one basket of Steam. The ugliness of the attacks now casts Epic and their affiliated devs in an underdog role and they will develop their own fanbase (with both good and bad elements, like all fanbases) that identifies with this role. Ooblets, the game, will also ultimately benefit from better sales as it was previously a very obscure title, so the effort to "punish" the devs for their alleged insolence is completely counterproductive. Any single individual who could see that their attempts are backfiring would of course stop right away, but here's where the mob's strength becomes its weakness. The mob can't and won't stop. It can't be held accountable for anything because it has no leadership. And it can't stop itself from destroying its own ambitions for the same reason.

As for the consumer inconvenience of not being able to use their preferred marketplace, the same dynamics of business are at work in every other industry. I'd love to be able to get all of my grocery shopping done at one store but I have to go to multiple stores because they each have their own deals with distributors, and these are changed periodically with no input from the clientele. I'd have to say it's a side effect of the hard core gamer culture, being composed of marginalized people (not to name call, but sometimes known as "nerds") who feel disempowered and disrespected in day-to-day life in various ways, to think that they should have a voice in business decisions, and that they might derive power from banding together in these ultimately counterproductive ways.

 

[B-Man]

Just goes to show that you can't win with these zealots no matter how you deal with the situation. If you sign on with Epic, they will view you as the enemy and make a target of you.

Ys Net says basically nothing, and we all saw the fallout from that. The Ooblets people write a lengthy blog post explaining the situation in detail and they get it a lot worse. Yes, it's possible that some members of the Ooblets community found their tone to be condescending or insulting. But how do we really know what the general consensus of the Ooblets community is? Clearly, the voices of the 1,263 Ooblets patrons are being drown out by the voices of the angry Internet mob, 99% of which never even heard of Ooblets until now.

Why do people care so much? If you had never heard of Ooblets or were never interested in the game, then why are you even angry? Who cares about a blog post written to fans of the game? Why even bother to read it and form such a strong opinion? It literally has no effect on you. It just proves their point about toxic and entitled gamers. They're all coming out of the woodwork now to join the anti-Epic mob. I swear that this whole Epic situation is the biggest example of a hive mind mentality I've seen in my life.

I already answered that, do you think that making users participants of a predatory practice trivial ?
It's legitimizing the move that some see as immoral or just behavior that shouldn't be rewarded.

Oh my goodness. Predatory? Immoral? How hyperbolic can you get? Yes, it is trivial. It 100% absolutely is. Not only is a corporation buying exclusive rights to something commonplace in a capitalist society, but this is one of the only examples of such a practice costing you no money to use the thing whose exclusivity was bought. I don't see how anyone who's not looking to be angry at something can view this as anything but trivial.

Oh no, you have to download an extra launcher to play certain games? What immoral predators!

It's a "good" move for epic, it's not a good move for the consumer nor it benefits them in any way, and I applaud people that stand against it.

You keep on repeating that it has no benefit for the consumer. And yet, as Shenmue fans, we are literally benefiting from it in the best possible way. Shenmue III is going to be a better game because of it! In what world is that not a benefit? Nearly all of the stretch goals have been implemented. I have no doubt that we are going to get a much more full-featured Shenmue experience than we were going to without Epic's additional funding. On top of that, it's possible that their funding will ensure a Shenmue IV and beyond.

I personally am happy about Epic's involvement and if you invested that much money in Shenmue III, you should be too. But I guess getting a higher quality product doesn't count as a consumer benefit when it doesn't fit your narrative. Silly me.

 

[shredingskin]

basically screamed as loud as they could that this studio is terrible and you shouldnt support them.
but we cant let this one thing slide, no, he said something positive about Epic.

Why should they support something they don't want to support ?

Oh my goodness. Predatory? Immoral? How hyperbolic can you get? Yes, it is trivial. It 100% absolutely is. Not only is a corporation buying exclusive rights to something commonplace in a capitalist society, but this is one of the only examples of such a practice costing you no money to use the thing whose exclusivity was bought. I don't see how anyone who's not looking to be angry at something can view this as anything but trivial.

That's just an appeal to normality, it would be better for public discourse thinking before writing.
Yup, it's predatory, it's buying marketplace. The analogue would be big brands buying shelf space and not letting smaller products in. It's in their right to do so, it's not in any way pro consumer. We are at a point here that we can call it out and not being sheeple, we already lost the DRM battle, why keep going ?.
Why are you attaching absolutism to morality? In every sense of the word it is:

Moralityis the differentiation of intentions, decisions and actions between those that are distinguished as proper and those that are improper

If there is a proper way of expanding consumer base, it's a moral decision to use other ones.

Shenmue III is going to be a better game because of it! In what world is that not a benefit? Nearly all of the stretch goals have been implemented.

It's blurry the way it's going to benefit Shenmue and not only DS. But anyway, the reason I put that amount of money is because I thought it was the only way it could have happened. Instead they used it as leverage to get more investors, is it bad ? Not really, and I don't mind being used as a prop by Shenmue. But let's say that Epic went the other way, and just funded SIII, I'd buy the game for 60 bucks and get the product in the terms they want.
If they invest on IV it's their bet, for SIII they just spent money getting a product that already was being in production that many people already "invested" in good faith.

It all depends on what your scope is, if I'm thinking only about SIII is kinda selfish, if I think it as an evolving problem it's another deal. I am selfish making a blind eye for Shenmue, it's hypocritical, and I own up to that. I can benefit from something that I don't feel is good for the overall economy.

I have to go though, it's my girlfriend free day and she's getting mad at me spending it with the computer.

 

[ShenSun]

Epic Game Store is trash. I want a refund on Ooblets even though i only found out about it 2 days ago.

 

[AltGr]

Basically, if you don't like Epic deals you need a birth certificate and a government license that confirms you as personally affected to express your (toxic) opinion.

On the other hand, if you are just a PS4 user who has never played on PC, you have free rein to talk about things you don't know, disregard other people's opinions and open as many threads as you want defending the Epic Store that you won't use.

 

[Tsukuyomimagi99]

Honestly there’s very little I can contribute to this discussion as everything that’s been said has been said. Like with EGS, I have ambivalent sentiments towards the Ooblets blog post. First of all, I never took the tone of that post as patronizing and felt it was more tongue and cheek. I didn’t think it was very funny, but ultimately it was harmless in the long run. I think he was trying to preemptively address the inevitatable controversy that would come from this with humor but failed. It’s really hard to understand tone on the internet since it’s all text unless you make it very obvious.

However I didn’t really care about the tone of the blog post and more about it’s substance. I agree with the writer that some gamers are definitely entitled. I’ve seen people pirate video games for far more trivial reasons or just because they’re selfish. And while I have no doubt that if the writer was more polite in his response he would’ve gotten less backlash it doesn’t change the fact that people still would’ve given them shit over this and steal/pirate the game in the end. On a side note, I find it amusing people who pirate because of Epic’s security concerns but think a torrent is so much safer.

However the rest of his post came across to me as someone who doesn’t understand the fans perspective on Epic. He uses a True Scotsman Fallacy, an Appeal to Larger Problems Fallacy, and didn’t address the majority of concerns most consumers have about the launcher. The one issue he did address lacked context. You want to be a competitor to Valve that’s fine, that’s what all these other launchers (like GoG) do. However this isn’t 2004 anymore, in 2019 Steam has set the standard as to what PC gamers expect from a launcher.

I could understand if Epic were a small business just starting up, but they are making millions/billions off of Fortnite and a launcher with barebones features is the best they can do? Is he going to address the lack of global accessibility, the security issues, or any other point the critics have brought up? To be fair though, Tim Sweeney has recognized this and said he’ll be addressing these problems in the future. If he’s good on his word then I think the exclusivity complaints will probably die down.

On the other hand, I think some gamers went way too far with this issue. It’s fine to criticize the developer for how they handled the situation but act like a fucking adult about it. I don’t care what your reasoning is, there is no justification for death threats, harassment, and actively sabotaging them by misquoting them or making them say things they never did. Wanting to destroy somebody’s livelihood because you didn’t like what they said online is fucking childish.

You don’t like what he has to say? Then engage him in a civil discussion and present your points and attack his arguments. If you still feel like he’s being a condescending dick to you, then simply don’t buy their product and walk away. The worst kind of attention for a business is NO attention, because now Epic can simply just spin this negativity into more sales. In other words, the critics just shot themselves in the foot. It’s immature bullshit like this is why I try to keep a small profile online.

 

[B-Man]

Basically, if you don't like Epic deals you need a birth certificate and a government license that confirms you as personally affected to express your (toxic) opinion.

On the other hand, if you are just a PS4 user who has never played on PC, you have free rein to talk about things you don't know, disregard other people's opinions and open as many threads as you want defending the Epic Store that you won't use.

Nobody would care if the reactions to it weren't so unreasonably extreme.

There is obviously also a bias among posters here, myself included. I'm not going to lie and say that I would be as invested in this debate as I am if it didn't involve Yu Suzuki being vilified and Shenmue's name being dragged through the mud after the seemingly miraculous resurrection of the series.

Another point I want to make is that just as much as people talk about EGS being anti-consumer, I could say that Steam is anti-developer. Do developers of the games you enjoy playing, especially small ones like Ys Net or the husband and wife developing Ooblets, not deserve a decent percentage of profits from their game sales? Overall, it seems like a good thing to me.

 

[AltGr]

Nobody would care if the reactions to it weren't so unreasonably extreme.

There is obviously also a bias among posters here, myself included. I'm not going to lie and say that I would be as invested in this debate as I am if it didn't involve Yu Suzuki being vilified and Shenmue's name being dragged through the mud after the seemingly miraculous resurrection of the series.

Another point I want to make is that just as much as people talk about EGS being anti-consumer, I could say that Steam is anti-developer. Do developers of the games you enjoy playing, especially small ones like Ys Net or the husband and wife developing Ooblets, not deserve a decent percentage of profits from their game sales? Overall, it seems like a good thing to me.

And if this was only about extreme reactions I wouldn't care. I would agree even. But people here are using this excuse to full on defend Epic.

I don't know if Steam is anti-developer, but if Steam is the devil consoles are worse in every way and I don't hear anything about this. It's funny to see people that buy their games in retail now suddenly worried about the revenue split devs get from Steam. It would also be interesting to see where the PC market would be without Steam, considering Microsoft lack of effort in the past or Epic abandoning it altogether years ago. Now they want a piece of the pie.

Also itch.io is pay-what-you-want for devs. They can keep the 100% of the revenue if they want. The Discord store is 90/10. So I guess the EGS is anti-developer too?

 

[B-Man]

And if this was only about extreme reactions I wouldn't care. I would agree even. But people here are using this excuse to full on defend Epic.

I don't know if Steam is anti-developer, but if Steam is the devil consoles are worse in every way and I don't hear anything about this. It's funny to see people that buy their games in retail now suddenly worried about the revenue split devs get from Steam. It would also be interesting to see where the PC market would be without Steam, considering Microsoft lack of effort in the past or Epic abandoning it altogether years ago. Now they want a piece of the pie.

Also itch.io is pay-what-you-want for devs. They can keep the 100% of the revenue if they want. The Discord store is 90/10. So I guess the EGS is anti-developer too?

Well yeah, sometimes the extremists ruin things for everyone else. As Zoyous pointed out, it can backfire and make people sympathize and side with the target of the extremists. You're definitely seeing some of that here.

I'm not saying people should boycott Steam or anything like that. I just think that if a developer chooses to accept a deal with Epic, that's perfectly understandable. Especially when they give a small indie dev enough money to make sure they at least break even.

 

[BruceWayne911]

Epic vs Steam is the new Nintendo vs Sega rivalry. I thought the PC master race was above that. The next rivalry should be Wal-Mart vs Amazon. You'd have a mob of angry people yelling, " I hate Amazon and their two day free shipping."?

 

[shredingskin]

Well, I reiterate what I said in my first post, things would be different if the developer would be just honest ? Probably.
Is EGS practice to make already-bought games exclusive shitty ? to me yeah.
Is competition good ? Yup.
Is the developer being used as proxy for the whole EGS ? Partly yeah.

About the developer post: just feels like a lazy justification for something that is pretty clear, they choose money, but they instead of just saying it they preemptively attacked people that disagree with their decision toxic and entitled in an approach to take the moral ground (pretty entitled of themselves), it didn't set well with a lot of people.

It's kinda funny people getting mad at people on the internet criticizing multinational companies.
I also think it has to do with mostly libertarian guys using it as a proxy war for their ideology, most of them know that capitalism tends to create monopolies and monopolies tend to create worse consumer environment, the libertarians think it's due to consumer ingenuity that the market would regulate and not need state assistance to maintain certain balance or mediate for consumers.

 

[B-Man]

Well, I reiterate what I said in my first post, things would be different if the developer would be just honest ? Probably.

You're fooling yourself if you really think the reaction would be different to any significant degree if the developer "would be just honest." Maybe the reaction to the Ooblets thing would be a little less extreme if they had gone about it differently, but that's about the extent of it. If Ys Net had made a nice update a day before E3 explaining the situation, all that would have happened is that the outrage, demands for refunds, and cries of Yu Suzuki being a backstabber would have began a day earlier.

It's kinda funny people getting mad at people on the internet criticizing multinational companies.
I also think it has to do with mostly libertarian guys using it as a proxy war for their ideology, most of them know that capitalism tends to create monopolies and monopolies tend to create worse consumer environment, the libertarians think it's due to consumer ingenuity that the market would regulate and not need state assistance to maintain certain balance or mediate for consumers.

What? Are we even talking about the same thing anymore? I'm not a libertarian and my opinion on this has nothing to do with my personal views on politics or the overall economy. I'm pretty sure I speak for most of the posters here when I say that all we care about is Shenmue. You're the one dragging your political ideology into this discussion. The way that many of us feel about this has nothing to do with our political party affiliation, or anything remotely like that.

As for getting mad at people criticizing multinational companies, that's in response to people criticizing small indie devs for wanting to actually make a profit, as well as provide a better and more polished product.

 

[AltGr]

Well yeah, sometimes the extremists ruin things for everyone else. As Zoyous pointed out, it can backfire and make people sympathize and side with the target of the extremists. You're definitely seeing some of that here.

I'm not saying people should boycott Steam or anything like that. I just think that if a developer chooses to accept a deal with Epic, that's perfectly understandable. Especially when they give a small indie dev enough money to make sure they at least break even.

But I don't buy that people are reacting out of sympathy for anything. If everyone (at the S3 kickstarter or in general) was protesting very politely and using rainbow emojis, and a couple of big youtubers or sites noticed, the reaction here would be the same defensiveness. People here just don't want any controversy or any bad light near Shenmue. And since the deal is already done, we are team Epic now, and we were also team Epic before the Ooblets thing. The "anti-epic = angry basement dweller" argument is just very convenient and a bit dishonest.

 

[BruceWayne911]

You're fooling yourself if you really think the reaction would be different to any significant degree if the developer "would be just honest." Maybe the reaction to the Ooblets thing would be a little less extreme if they had gone about it differently, but that's about the extent of it. If Ys Net had made a nice update a day before E3 explaining the situation, all that would have happened is that the outrage, demands for refunds, and cries of Yu Suzuki being a backstabber would have began a day earlier.


What? Are we even talking about the same thing anymore? I'm not a libertarian and my opinion on this has nothing to do with my personal views on politics or the overall economy. I'm pretty sure I speak for most of the posters here when I say that all we care about is Shenmue. You're the one dragging your political ideology into this discussion. The way that many of us feel about this has nothing to do with our political party affiliation, or anything remotely like that.

As for getting mad at people criticizing multinational companies, that's in response to people criticizing small indie devs for wanting to actually make a profit, as well as provide a better and more polished product.

Facts!!!

 

[Zoyous]

Write your reply...

But I don't buy that people are reacting out of sympathy for anything. If everyone (at the S3 kickstarter or in general) was protesting very politely and using rainbow emojis, and a couple of big youtubers or sites noticed, the reaction here would be the same defensiveness. People here just don't want any controversy or any bad light near Shenmue. And since the deal is already done, we are team Epic now, and we were also team Epic before the Ooblets thing. The "anti-epic = angry basement dweller" argument is just very convenient and a bit dishonest.

I think you might be projecting your own attitude - ascribing a binary (team this or team that) view onto the situation, and also saying that the people who aren't already down for your cause are intractable. I'm not a fan of any particular marketplace/launcher software. At one time or another I've used most of the well-known ones... Origin, Uplay, GOG, and currently mostly use Steam. When Shenmue III comes out I'll be using EGS. Because I don't care what platform I play it on. And I don't really share any of the concerns that people have brought up about EGS - at least not to the extent that I would change platforms. I don't care about Steam's robust additional features because I only use Steam to buy and launch games. I'm not convinced about the assertions regarding EGS's security vulnerabilities. And I'm not bothered by Epic's aggressive pursuit of exclusivity very much - I don't like it, but it's a common business practice and that's why I "have to" (want to) have both Netflix and Amazon Prime, shop at multiple grocery stores, and so on.

But I did feel like people who wanted the game and expected the game on Steam should be able to get it on Steam or get a refund, so I did my part and wrote a polite message (via KS) saying just that. That's really not a courtesy that I expect my "rivals" in this matter would extend to me, but my expectations are low due to the level of discourse they've displayed. You might think my polite message was useless and it was the explosion of outrage that moved the needle - there's no way of knowing. But anecdotally, I did have a success (along with others who politely wrote them) in persuading the publishers of Dreamcast: Collected Works to correct an error saying Shenmue was a trilogy before it was published.

About this notion of "Team Epic," "Team Steam," or whatever. What you're describing is called "self-branding" in marketing psychology. You may or may not believe in it, or think it applies to you, but the marketing/advertising industry sure does and that's a $1.4 trillion industry, so they take this kind of research into psychology seriously. Self-branding explains why fans of a product (for example, Steam) feel personally threatened when their favorite brand is threatened. Which would explain some of them irrationally, ferociously attacking people who either align with a rival brand (for example, Epic) or people who "dismiss" their concerns.

As I mentioned before, I don't feel an affinity with either Steam or EGS, but I'm not immune to this psychological phenomenon - I do have favorite brands, including Shenmue, Sega, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, etc. Because of that, I'm annoyed by the nebulous anti-EGS campaign which I view as having ruined the camaraderie of this forum, and as a form of vandalism and trolling that I see in every forum, twitter thread, or available comment field on any article. So I do feel a reactionary impulse that if these "anti-EGS trolls" are ruining my enjoyment of one of my favorite things, I might as well spite them by "rooting for" Epic. But since I don't want to be reactionary and feed into a cycle of futile anger, I make an effort not to indulge in that reactionary impulse. But you have to consider there are some people who will be consumed by the anger, and those are the ones who previously might have been persuaded to share the concerns about Epic, but now are committed to just fighting about it. Now they really are intractable and engaging in trading insults is just a matter of who feels like they can get the last word in - no one is changing their minds, and the cause is lost.

I don't share your concerns about EGS. I listened to them and thought about them and they're not important to me (aside from wanting people to be able to get refunds or get it on Steam). So I'm the enemy now and I must be labeled part of your enemy "team," everything I say is a condescending insult, everything I think is because I'm stupid, etc. etc. Okay, if that's how you want it, but it must be obvious that your cause is lost (for now) because Epic is not stopping or even slowing down. Alternately, you could adopt a longer term strategy and consider me a potential ally who just hasn't been persuaded to your point of view yet. But that would require letting go of the anger, and some people just really enjoy feeling angry. If someone can't get their way, at least they can enjoy letting people know how much they hate and disrespect their enemies for thwarting them. Even if you think this is a misinterpretation or a mischaracterization, there is a way to express that without invective. And that kind of communication leaves a door open for possible future success. If I can't be persuaded to align with every one of your goals, you can think about if there are any sub-goals that I can be persuaded to agree with.

The consumers are people involved in these matters who don't have any direct decision-making power and don't have enough financial power to influence decision-makers. This is obvious because Epic is continuing to snap up exclusives. When someone doesn't have enough power to directly control a situation, the only potentially effective course of action is political, which is the art of persuasion. Extreme anger appeals to a small number of people, and can have some short term effect, but it turns off more people. Being polite, courteous, professional, and persistent in your communications actually is more effective long-term. The #saveshenmue campaign is a great example of this. Even if a positive effort like that is unsuccessful in the short term, it keeps the door open and the lines of communication open for the long term. A vitriolic, bridge-burning scorched-earth campaign will be a failure if it doesn't immediately succeed. A good rule of thumb when deciding on tactics is to transpose the actions from internet anonymity to face-to-face, accountable, real life interactions.

 

[Stiz]

I'm not offended, I think it's a shitty business practice by part of EGS, and the devs are grandstanding that want to have their cake and eat it too.
Why are you offended that people criticize something they find it reprehensible ?

I've already "supported" the game by paying 2875 bucks, and yes I will play it, and yes I think it's a shady business practice by EGS. I'm literally the type of person that EGS was trying to get to by trying to buy marketshare, and part of why people see it as an unhealthy way to behave.

Competition is great, you can have competition without trying to buy marketshare. There are pro consumer ways to do it (and that EGS already does), people call out the bad practice.

That's your call, I wouldn't be against Epic financing full on a game to make it exclusive, and having the choice to buy it or not.
Paying for a game that already was paid by a bunch of people it's another type of deal.

It is a business despite all that are being said if nothing is profitable or they can receive funding in this case shenmu e can continue thanks to EGS. I doubt epic doing this to spite consumers. It is also not hard to understand the entitlement issue and I have to say gamers act entitled and the people blowing this out of proportion did not back this game or shenmue.

 

[高野和泉]

Here's something I found to add to this topic. There's a subreddit that congregate to collectively hate on anything/everything epic.


@spud1897

You might wanna keep a tab since shenmue 3 is one of the "Targets". And there are disgruntled backers on there as part of the pool.