The Epic Games Store thread

[spud1897]

Here's something I found to add to this topic. There's a subreddit that congregate to collectively hate on anything/everything epic.


@spud1897

You might wanna keep a tab since shenmue 3 is one of the "Targets". And there are disgruntled backers on there as part of the pool.

Thanks for the heads up. I suspect these are the same ones who are all over the kickstarter page. I'll keep an eye out.

Checking the comments the topics gone dead for nearly a month. The same sort of 10ish people commenting. Some talking rubbish "they edited out steam of the kickstarter" and others annoyed but calm.

Not too worried as such. I'll be creating a topic later to start to push back towards the people with no vested interest but still trying to ruin this game. Spags idea not mine so I take no credit.

 

[高野和泉]

So yea...hate band wagoners are the worst.



Kicking people when they're already down. I'm starting to think about throwing a few +1 the Ooblet dev's way just out of sympathy.

 

[AltGr]

...

Ok Dr Freud ... "Team Epic" was just a way of talking, not meant to be taken literally. I know that you don't really care about Epic/Steam etc. I have not put you in any enemy team, and I don't think I'm in any campaign or team nor want to be. Perphaps my English is worse than I thought.

My point was simply that you are not neutral on this. Because Shenmue is involved and you don't want negativity or controversies around it. You don't care, everything in the kickstarter is fine and here is this people protesting and ruining the party. Wouldn't it be cool if they stopped yapping?

So that's why I think the whole "We sympathize with Epic now because the poor oblet guy" is a bit phony. I think you were already there, and that it's easier to think "anti-EGS=angry nerds" if this topic is just a nuisance to you to begin with.

 

[Stiz]

Epic vs Steam is the new Nintendo vs Sega rivalry. I thought the PC master race was above that. The next rivalry should be Wal-Mart vs Amazon. You'd have a mob of angry people yelling, " I hate Amazon and their two day free shipping."?

I love Amazon prime ?

 

[DigitalDuck]

I think you might be projecting your own attitude - ascribing a binary (team this or team that) view onto the situation, and also saying that the people who aren't already down for your cause are intractable.

This is literally what you did. Like, word-for-word.

You defended the idea that those who disagree with the EGS decision "are butthurt because their beloved Steam is getting a real competitor for the first time ever", and then claimed people who disagree with the characterisation aren't allowed to have a say on this on the basis that they disagree.

But I did feel like people who wanted the game and expected the game on Steam should be able to get it on Steam or get a refund, so I did my part and wrote a polite message (via KS) saying just that. That's really not a courtesy that I expect my "rivals" in this matter would extend to me, but my expectations are low due to the level of discourse they've displayed. You might think my polite message was useless and it was the explosion of outrage that moved the needle - there's no way of knowing. But anecdotally, I did have a success (along with others who politely wrote them) in persuading the publishers of Dreamcast: Collected Works to correct an error saying Shenmue was a trilogy before it was published.

You're right. The appropriate level of discourse would be to make the claim that because you disagree with me, you're not entitled to an opinion, and then keep claiming you're arguing in bad faith on the basis that you still don't agree with me. Maybe misrepresent an argument or two while I'm at it. After all, if it's good enough for you...

About this notion of "Team Epic," "Team Steam," or whatever. What you're describing is called "self-branding" in marketing psychology. You may or may not believe in it, or think it applies to you, but the marketing/advertising industry sure does and that's a $1.4 trillion industry, so they take this kind of research into psychology seriously. Self-branding explains why fans of a product (for example, Steam) feel personally threatened when their favorite brand is threatened. Which would explain some of them irrationally, ferociously attacking people who either align with a rival brand (for example, Epic) or people who "dismiss" their concerns.

All of this applies equally to you. Have some self-reflection.

Now they really are intractable and engaging in trading insults is just a matter of who feels like they can get the last word in - no one is changing their minds, and the cause is lost.

Except the people you are arguing against are merely defending themselves from being called "Steam fanboys", and most recently by you, "obviously willing to descend into criminal activity". This is definitely going to change their minds on the issue.

I don't share your concerns about EGS. I listened to them and thought about them and they're not important to me (aside from wanting people to be able to get refunds or get it on Steam).

That's cool, nobody reasonable has any problem with that. Nobody is complaining that people are happy to buy Shenmue on EGS. Literally nobody. Not a soul. No one. Nada. If you want to, go ahead.

Doesn't make me a Steam fanboy just because I don't though. Especially since I don't even like Steam either.

 

[BruceWayne911]

This is literally what you did. Like, word-for-word.

You defended the idea that those who disagree with the EGS decision "are butthurt because their beloved Steam is getting a real competitor for the first time ever", and then claimed people who disagree with the characterisation aren't allowed to have a say on this on the basis that they disagree.



You're right. The appropriate level of discourse would be to make the claim that because you disagree with me, you're not entitled to an opinion, and then keep claiming you're arguing in bad faith on the basis that you still don't agree with me. Maybe misrepresent an argument or two while I'm at it. After all, if it's good enough for you...



All of this applies equally to you. Have some self-reflection.



Except the people you are arguing against are merely defending themselves from being called "Steam fanboys", and most recently by you, "obviously willing to descend into criminal activity". This is definitely going to change their minds on the issue.



That's cool, nobody reasonable has any problem with that. Nobody is complaining that people are happy to buy Shenmue on EGS. Literally nobody. Not a soul. No one. Nada. If you want to, go ahead.

Doesn't make me a Steam fanboy just because I don't though. Especially since I don't even like Steam either.

Bro at the end of the day the deal with Epic was a good business move and a good move for Shenmue 3. No business is gonna turn down millions of dollars it's just not gonna happen in a capitalist market. The goal isn't to just make money but to make as much money as you can. Also there were alot of stretch goals the Kickstarter and the Slacker Backer could not reach this Epic deal made those things happen. The fans are getting the best version of Shenmue 3 possible. A literal WIN-WIN.

The developer and Epic have done everything they can to please the consumer. You can get a refund, a Epic key and Steam key, the physical PC disc is a actual disc not just a code. What else do want?

If Epic made you sign up for a monthly or yearly subscription to use their launcher I would be on your side, but the launcher is free just a few double clicks away. To the people complaining about features and spyware, let's be real agencies are gonna spy on you in one form or another. They have data on you from purchases to browsing history and etc nothing you or I can do about that. The features can wait Epic and Steam ain't going nowhere they will come eventually.

 

[DigitalDuck]

But none of that makes me a Steam fanboy, or a criminal. That's my argument. Everything you've brought up is completely irrelevant to the point we're talking about...

I know it wasn't malicious though, and I'll address your points anyway:

Bro at the end of the day the deal with Epic was a good business move and a good move for Shenmue 3. No business is gonna turn down millions of dollars it's just not gonna happen in a capitalist market. The goal isn't to just make money but to make as much money as you can. Also there were alot of stretch goals the Kickstarter and the Slacker Backer could not reach this Epic deal made those things happen. The fans are getting the best version of Shenmue 3 possible. A literal WIN-WIN.

I agree, a business isn't going to turn down a ton of money. Hell, I probably wouldn't. That doesn't mean I can't like that it happens. I don't like the fact that it's PS4-exclusive on consoles either.

The stretch goals on the Kickstarter were almost definitely a result of Deep Silver's investment and not Epic's; these features aren't something that can be implemented in days, and unless the deal happened many months before it was announced (and they left Steam plastered everywhere for some reason) they only had days.

The developer and Epic have done everything they can to please the consumer. You can get a refund, a Epic key and Steam key, the physical PC disc is a actual disc not just a code. What else do want?

Completely agree. I've already said that the people who are still complaining about being ripped off need to get a life - although I don't like the decision and how they initially handled it, they have since done the best job possible in remedying the situation and I have no complaints about that.

To the people complaining about features and spyware, let's be real agencies are gonna spy on you in one form or another. They have data on you from purchases to browsing history and etc nothing you or I can do about that. The features can wait Epic and Steam ain't going nowhere they will come eventually.

Ideally I want as few companies having access to my life as possible. I'm always going to reject a more intrusive company for a less intrusive one. That's how I am. You might think that's silly, but I don't.

You're more than welcome to not agree and play Shenmue III on EGS - in fact, if it's not a problem for you, I implore you to do so as I do want the game to be successful. I will choose to play the PS4 version. I'm as welcome to my choice as you are yours.

 

[BruceWayne911]

But none of that makes me a Steam fanboy, or a criminal. That's my argument. Everything you've brought up is completely irrelevant to the point we're talking about...

I know it wasn't malicious though, and I'll address your points anyway:



I agree, a business isn't going to turn down a ton of money. Hell, I probably wouldn't. That doesn't mean I can't like that it happens. I don't like the fact that it's PS4-exclusive on consoles either.

The stretch goals on the Kickstarter were almost definitely a result of Deep Silver's investment and not Epic's; these features aren't something that can be implemented in days, and unless the deal happened many months before it was announced (and they left Steam plastered everywhere for some reason) they only had days.



Completely agree. I've already said that the people who are still complaining about being ripped off need to get a life - although I don't like the decision and how they initially handled it, they have since done the best job possible in remedying the situation and I have no complaints about that.



Ideally I want as few companies having access to my life as possible. I'm always going to reject a more intrusive company for a less intrusive one. That's how I am. You might think that's silly, but I don't.

You're more than welcome to not agree and play Shenmue III on EGS - in fact, if it's not a problem for you, I implore you to do so as I do want the game to be successful. I will choose to play the PS4 version. I'm as welcome to my choice as you are yours.

Its never my intention to persuade how people think or the decisions they choose to make. Epic being in the Shenmue picture helps more than it hurts. I personally don't care about platforms or services I care about Shenmue. Nobody thought Shenmue 3 was gonna happen now that it is let's not let trival things impede in the Shenmue process. Digital Duck I appreciate you being a Shenmue fan on a Shenmue forum discussing Shenmue, cause at the end of the day I know you want Shenmue to succeed.

 

[DigitalDuck]

At the end of the day we all want Shenmue to succeed. I don't think there's a single person posting on these forums who doesn't.

 

[Zoyous]

This is literally what you did. Like, word-for-word.

You defended the idea that those who disagree with the EGS decision "are butthurt because their beloved Steam is getting a real competitor for the first time ever", and then claimed people who disagree with the characterisation aren't allowed to have a say on this on the basis that they disagree.

I'll work my way through your wall of quotes one-by-one. First of all, this is not true. You were engaged in an argument with Hyo_Razuki in which that user made the statement you're quoting. I came along and took exception to your attempt to frame all discussion of this EGS issue by saying "For the millionth time, this has nothing to do with Steam." That statement had nothing to do with Hyo_Razuki but you apparently took it as me defending that user's position. It had to do with you always trying to dismiss people when they say "It's just a launcher," "It's not anti-competitive," "It's not as robust as Steam," etc. As if everyone has to appease your personal reason for not wanting this exclusivity deal. Just like there are a myriad of reasons why people might be upset about EGS, each of those reasons has a counterpoint and no one user gets to frame the entire discussion. You were obviously really offended by Hyo_Razuki's statement but it's wrong of you to transpose that on to me and claim I was defending it. As you know, I don't generally like or use foul language. You apparently do, though.

You're right. The appropriate level of discourse would be to make the claim that because you disagree with me, you're not entitled to an opinion, and then keep claiming you're arguing in bad faith on the basis that you still don't agree with me. Maybe misrepresent an argument or two while I'm at it. After all, if it's good enough for you...

This is dripping with so much sarcastic invective it's hard to parse. Why don't you just state in plain language what you think my style of discourse is, and then use actual quotes from me, to prove it? That's one of the reasons why I refer to your posts as being in bad faith. By phrasing it with sarcastic (mis)attributions, it's clear to me you're trying to bait me into an angry exchange. I'll save you the trouble - there is no insult you can hurl at me that is going to provoke me to use the same kind of homophobic epithets and unhinged foul language that you use. That's a low point that you own. You could apologize but I understand you got a little warning so I guess that will have to do. Imagine if I actually was "Dr. Freud" as AltGr dubbed me; what would be the motivation of the chosen epithet?

So, if you can, produce a quote from me where I said anything close to "because you disagree with me, you're not entitled to an opinion." Everyone's entitled to an opinion. But this is a Shenmue fan forum, not a general interest gaming forum, so many people here have gotten fed up with the EGS complaints.

All of this applies equally to you. Have some self-reflection.

Regarding the psychological concept of self-branding? I literally said in both posts that I wrote that it applies to me as well. Are you blind with rage? Don't expect me to join you there.

*By the way, yes this applies to Shenmue fans, too.

As I mentioned before, I don't feel an affinity with either Steam or EGS, but I'm not immune to this psychological phenomenon - I do have favorite brands, including Shenmue, Sega, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, etc.

Except the people you are arguing against are merely defending themselves from being called "Steam fanboys", and most recently by you, "obviously willing to descend into criminal activity". This is definitely going to change their minds on the issue.

Oh, have you not seen these poor victims expressing glee that they are justified in pirating the game? Haven't heard about the varying degrees of harassment and threats? Those are criminal activities. If it isn't something you're engaging in, what's the problem with acknowledging it? Somehow you are taking everything as a personal attack. You're also trying to come up with some kind of false equivalency but I think you'll be hard pressed to find examples of anyone on "my side" - that is, the "I don't care what platform it comes out on" side - who is making threats.

That's cool, nobody reasonable has any problem with that. Nobody is complaining that people are happy to buy Shenmue on EGS. Literally nobody. Not a soul. No one. Nada. If you want to, go ahead.

Doesn't make me a Steam fanboy just because I don't though. Especially since I don't even like Steam either.

Great, I guess I've just been in some kind of fever dream for the past two months that this forum and every comment section on every article about Shenmue has been vandalized with anti-EGS fervor. I don't care if you like Steam or not. My understanding is your problem with EGS is you think Epic is datamining its users and handing the data over to Tencent and subsequently the Chinese government. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[BruceWayne911]

I was thinking earlier today maybe Steam can't financially afford to compete with Epic Games. Steam has been getting that 70/30 pay cut for a long time and if they cut into that they would lose millions. Investors don't like losing money. IMO if Steam offered exclusive contracts Epic Games would probably double up on their offer, they seem that cut throat. I know Epic can afford to do these things because they have Fortnite which makes ungodly amounts of money. My random opinions!

 

[shredingskin]

Really guys you think that the backlash would be the same if the devs weren't such dicks ?

 

[DigitalDuck]

I'll work my way through your wall of quotes one-by-one. First of all, this is not true. You were engaged in an argument with Hyo_Razuki in which that user made the statement you're quoting. I came along and took exception to your attempt to frame all discussion of this EGS issue by saying "For the millionth time, this has nothing to do with Steam." That statement had nothing to do with Hyo_Razuki but you apparently took it as me defending that user's position. It had to do with you always trying to dismiss people when they say "It's just a launcher," "It's not anti-competitive," "It's not as robust as Steam," etc. As if everyone has to appease your personal reason for not wanting this exclusivity deal.

Well, I'll start with a small apology - it very much sounded, to me, that the exchange was your defending of Hyo_Razuki's position. Thanks for clearing that up.

I'm not "always trying to dismiss people". People are always trying to dismiss me (and others), by saying things like "it's just another launcher, why do you have a problem with it?" I explain that there are differences between the launchers and it is those differences that are the reasons people are upset, but apparently it falls on deaf ears and eventually I'm not even allowed to point out that there are differences.

Nobody has to appease my personal reason for not wanting this exclusitivity deal. But it would help if that reason wasn't immediately dismissed and replaced with shouting "FANBOY" all the time. That's all I ask.

Just like there are a myriad of reasons why people might be upset about EGS, each of those reasons has a counterpoint and no one user gets to frame the entire discussion.

So why does someone get to frame the entire discussion as everyone being upset at the decision being Steam fanboys?

This is dripping with so much sarcastic invective it's hard to parse. Why don't you just state in plain language what you think my style of discourse is, and then use actual quotes from me, to prove it? That's one of the reasons why I refer to your posts as being in bad faith. By phrasing it with sarcastic (mis)attributions, it's clear to me you're trying to bait me into an angry exchange. I'll save you the trouble - there is no insult you can hurl at me that is going to provoke me to use the same kind of homophobic epithets and unhinged foul language that you use. That's a low point that you own. You could apologize but I understand you got a little warning so I guess that will have to do. Imagine if I actually was "Dr. Freud" as AltGr dubbed me; what would be the motivation of the chosen epithet?

I think your style of discourse is exactly that which you accuse me of. Your posts are in bad faith, and you use sarcastic and condescending language trying to bait me into an angry exchange. For example, in this post:

I find your language vile. But I understand you've been caught out and can't come up with anything else. This hasn't been a good faith discussion on your part. I don't know what you think you've proven but you've only settled it in your own mind. In one breath you refer to these scientific studies as sophistry, and in the next breath (in the most childish language you can muster) you affirm their applicability to your "rival" fanbase . Well, which is it?

The first few sentences speak for themselves. The last two sentences are the only part that contributes to an argument, and you (at least seemed to be; if you're being honest with your first point, and I have no reason to assume otherwise, then I was mistaken about this and perhaps you can understand why I made the posts I did if you keep this in mind) were making the claim that "everyone who doesn't like Epic is a Steam fanboy" is a legitimate position to hold; I disagree with this, and find the argument "self-branding exists" as such a poor one that it also leads to the claim that "everyone not bothered by the decision is an Epic fanboy". And yes, I used ridiculous language, because I believe both claims are ridiculous and obviously invalid, and that if your arguments lead to ridiculous and invalid claims it means your arguments are equally ridiculous and invalid.

That's how you argue something is sophistry. I wasn't "affirming their applicability to my 'rival' fanbase"; I was constructing an equally ridiculous position as (not?) yours using the same arguments that you used. Your conclusion should not have been "well that sounds like a legitimate position to hold", it should've been "that's a silly position, why do my arguments support it?". Hence ending the post with "what a fucking joke".

Nothing I said was homophobic, so you can leave that at the door. I'm sorry for the profanity; I was operating on the basis that we're both adults... I fully admit that I should keep my posts to clean, but sometimes it serves to make a point.

I also didn't receive a warning, but I did make a note to the moderator that it was more profanity than I should've used.

So, if you can, produce a quote from me where I said anything close to "because you disagree with me, you're not entitled to an opinion." Everyone's entitled to an opinion. But this is a Shenmue fan forum, not a general interest gaming forum, so many people here have gotten fed up with the EGS complaints.

Okie-dokie. How about this one?

So you say... But you don't really get to decide what it's all about. You're part of a nebulous group that is against EGS in one way or another. If someone responds to the anti-competitive angle, you come along with the Chinese datamining assertion. If someone responds to that angle, someone else comes along and cries foul that their concerns are being dismissed in some sort of TOS-violating way (Like that ban evader Space Lion who was given free reign to follow me around here for weeks begging to have me banned. Sorry, but the fact that I don't share your POV != an insult. )

No matter which concern is addressed or how tactfully it's done, some other person with an axe to grind against Epic can claim that the point is being missed. I suppose you could say there is a decentralized coalition that is against Epic for a variety of reasons. If that's the case, I wouldn't bank on building the ranks by condescending to the people who are addressing some concern other than your particular one. But who even knows? I'm not even convinced this is a good faith discussion in the first place. It's the easiest thing in the world to just say, "no no no, for the millionth time, you just don't get it." Eventually, even a perfectly shared understanding often leads only to "agree to disagree."

You even go as far as to say there are a variety of reasons people are against Epic, but yet saying not everyone who is against Epic is a Steam fanboy is a bad faith argument. In your own words... which is it?

Oh, have you not seen these poor victims expressing glee that they are justified in pirating the game? Haven't heard about the varying degrees of harassment and threats? Those are criminal activities. If it isn't something you're engaging in, what's the problem with acknowledging it? Somehow you are taking everything as a personal attack. You're also trying to come up with some kind of false equivalency but I think you'll be hard pressed to find examples of anyone on "my side" - that is, the "I don't care what platform it comes out on" side - who is making threats.

I refer to your own post:

Of course most of it was coming from outside this community, but some of it was coming from within and it's all here in everyone's post history. There's no excuse for the behavior of this anti-EGS mob, and there's no way to engage them in any sort of reasonable conversation. As soon as they realize you aren't willing to join their ranks, they immediately launch into the harassment, the insults, the most vile and disgusting profanity they can think up, and many are obviously willing to descend even further into threats and other illegal activity. Furthermore they have the mendacity to say that they're the ones being victimized, insulted, and so forth. Sadly, as ineffective as their efforts have been, I don't think we've even seen the worst of their behavior yet.

Explain to me how this isn't conflating anyone who doesn't like EGS with the worst of the people who don't like EGS.

Great, I guess I've just been in some kind of fever dream for the past two months that this forum and every comment section on every article about Shenmue has been vandalized with anti-EGS fervor. I don't care if you like Steam or not. My understanding is your problem with EGS is you think Epic is datamining its users and handing the data over to Tencent and subsequently the Chinese government. Correct me if I'm wrong.

You're partially wrong. I don't care about the Tencent/Chinese government angle, I do care about the datamining. And while the worst of it has been debunked, it's still far too much tracking for my liking. That's literally it. That's my personal problem, and I've never attacked anyone for addressing any other concerns people have with EGS.

And no, the forum (I can't speak for anywhere else as I generally ignore comment sections) hasn't been "vandalised with anti-EGS fervor". People have legitimate complaints about it, and have been expressing it. Disagreeing with you is not the same as vandalism.

 

[Tosh]

Really guys you think that the backlash would be the same if the devs weren't such dicks ?

its still the same problem. the devs were just talking to their fans and supporters in the first place,
not to YongYea or Quartering or whatever. they didnt talk to Steam users or to Epic enemies
or to random people who might read it, they were talking to their community members,
to people who want to support Ooblets.
all of these random quotes about toxic gamers and so on
are completely pointless and out of context because everyone who wants to be negative
can just pick whatever he wants from any
of these texts and then say "look what he said, he meant exactly this!"
and this creates a huge domino effect even by just one sentence. after these videos are out,
he has no chance to defend himself and these rage communities are completely drowning their core community
because thousand people have no chance against 700.000 people.

i mean just take this one part about "toxic gamers", you have like ten different Youtubers who will interpret
it like this and this and this and then all of the comments will also interpret it how they like,
but nobody knows for sure what the dev really meant, he just wrote that one sentence.
nobody knows this guy, nobody knows what type of humor he has and so on, its just text.
but one or two parts that they dont like and its enough.
after the fire started, it doesnt matter what he says, the videos are already out
and even if he will say something like "no i dont meant XYZ, im sorry if you thought that i meant it that way"
then all the people in this rage type of community will just say "yeah sure, now hes apologizing, too late dude."
he cant win.

one "wrong" sentence and five videos of big Youtubers whos mission it is to find and criticise everything
and you are done. also imagine you are just a random guy and working with your wife or whatever on an indie game
and suddenly you receive thousands of messages about everything.
your games sucks, your wife is ugly, please die, lol i will just torrent your game,
have fun with your next zero dollar budget game haha ...
and these messages are from completely new people
who just raid every channel. thousands of people, the devs cant even see the messages from the core backers anymore.
and this goes on and on and on and on, like imagine this board here and you click on refresh
and it shows that there are 999 new messages in your favourite threads and all of them are insulsts.
how much fun is that?

then you can try apologizing which doesnt work because it wont stop these messages at all,
you can try to negotiate but this will create the same domino effect again which will result in even
more random quotes that are totally pointless and out of context
or you just say nothing at all and hope that at least the core backers will still be there.
he tried to comment on this stuff because its probably just his personality and of course this created the
next random quotes and more rage.

and all of this because of this one statement that wasnt even intended for anyone outside of their community.
i dont care about politics or what Tim Sweeney said about this or what security problems
EGS has, or if this has something to do with Shenmue.
the reactions to stuff like this are just too harsh. these two people are just humans, they dont have a multi million company, they are not forcing anyone outside of their community to buy anything and the rest are things that they can discuss like everything before in their community.

i want to see your face if 500.000 people that you never saw before, who have no idea who you are,
suddenly scream in your face that you are an asshole and a horrible human being.
and all of this because of some statements that everyone can interpret as they want,
random quotes out of context and even fake screenshots and videos.
these rage news Youtube channels dont even have their own communities under control,
Quartering is telling his community pretty much everytime that they shouldnt insult anyone on Twitter and so on
but after every new video exactly this happens.

this behavior is not fair at all. again, i dont care if you dont like Epic or Tim Sweeney
or whats your favourite president, its fine, im not here to proselytize you.
but these rage raids from communities with hundreds of thousands of members on small indie studios
are bullshit. this has nothing to do with discussing or negotiating,
its just a group of random people who raid a village, set everything on fire and then they leave.
this is nothing else than medieval times just digital and anonymous.

 

[Zoyous]

... it would help if that reason wasn't immediately dismissed and replaced with shouting "FANBOY" all the time. ...

... So why does someone get to frame the entire discussion as everyone being upset at the decision being Steam fanboys? ...

... making the claim that "everyone who doesn't like Epic is a Steam fanboy" is a legitimate position to hold ...

Well there's some kind of problem here, because that's not a term I've ever used. Come up with a quote from me if you can find one. I wasn't able to. The only time it comes up in a search of my posts is when I've quoted you.

you (at least seemed to be; if you're being honest with your first point, and I have no reason to assume otherwise, then I was mistaken about this and perhaps you can understand why I made the posts I did if you keep this in mind) were making the claim that "everyone who doesn't like Epic is a Steam fanboy" is a legitimate position to hold; I disagree with this, and find the argument "self-branding exists" as such a poor one that it also leads to the claim that "everyone not bothered by the decision is an Epic fanboy".

No, I didn't say anything about "everyone" being a "fanboy." I hate that term because it's obviously meant to be a provocation. Obviously you hate it too but you're coming after the wrong person if you think I'm making that accusation. Here's my actual quote regarding self-branding: "That isn't to say that every user of Steam is subject to this psychological phenomenon, but certainly many are and arguably every peripheral feature of Steam beyond merely purchasing and launching the game (e.g., achievements, trading cards, etc.) is designed as a hook into this type of self-definition behavior."

By the same token, I do think there are fans who "self-brand" with Epic, although I would expect that with EGS being new, their numbers are fewer simply by virtue of Steam's greater market share. But I don't know, there's certainly lots of fans of Unreal Engine, Fortnite, Gears of War, and whatever else they've made. There will be more in the future as Epic installs those psychological hooks (ahem, robust features) into EGS. But just like you don't want to be conflated with an irrational fandom of Steam, just because I have no problem with Epic's business practices doesn't make me an irrational fan of them. It seems like you and other users like AltGr just can't fathom that someone could just not care what platform this game we've been waiting for for two decades comes out on... there has to be some put-down explanation.

Explain to me how this isn't conflating anyone who doesn't like EGS with the worst of the people who don't like EGS.

Sure, words and phrases like "most of it was coming from outside this community, but some of it was coming from within" and "many are obviously willing to descend even further into threats and other illegal activity" refer to numbers of people fewer than "everyone."

Nothing I said was homophobic, so you can leave that at the door. I'm sorry for the profanity; I was operating on the basis that we're both adults...

Wrong, you used the term "cocksucker" which is a homophobic slur. I am an adult, and I'm not your buddy who you can feel safe to use that kind of language around. And I think every community, real and online, would be a better community without homophobes.

And no, the forum (I can't speak for anywhere else as I generally ignore comment sections) hasn't been "vandalised with anti-EGS fervor". People have legitimate complaints about it, and have been expressing it.

How many times do you think it's helpful to keep bringing it up? This is a Shenmue forum and Shenmue III is coming out via EGS. Are you getting anywhere with bringing it up repeatedly around here?

 

[DigitalDuck]

Well there's some kind of problem here, because that's not a term I've ever used. Come up with a quote from me if you can find one. I wasn't able to. The only time it comes up in a search of my posts is when I've quoted you.

I never said it was a term you've used. Literally every time I've said "it has nothing to do with Steam" or something of that ilk has been a direct response to someone saying otherwise, and you jumped down my throat for it.

It seems like you and other users like AltGr just can't fathom that someone could just not care what platform this game we've been waiting for for two decades comes out on... there has to be some put-down explanation.

I've never attacked or derided anyone for liking EGS. I don't understand why you'd make the claim that I don't understand.

Sure, words and phrases like "most of it was coming from outside this community, but some of it was coming from within" and "many are obviously willing to descend even further into threats and other illegal activity" refer to numbers of people fewer than "everyone."

Fair, but it still seems as though the implication is still there, at least to me. Maybe I'm wrong.

Wrong, you used the term "cocksucker" which is a homophobic slur. I am an adult, and I'm not your buddy who you can feel safe to use that kind of language around. And I think every community, real and online, would be a better community without homophobes.

1. I did not use the term "cocksucker", I claimed that people who liked Epic wanted to suck Sweeney's cock, because they must like him so much.
2. No homosexuality or heterosexuality was mentioned, only Sweeneysexuality. Both men and women suck cocks, and I've made no mention that either of them were bad.
3. It was part of a deliberately ridiculous argument, as I've already explained. Much like your arguing that I'm a homophobe because of it.

How many times do you think it's helpful to keep bringing it up? This is a Shenmue forum and Shenmue III is coming out via EGS. Are you getting anywhere with bringing it up repeatedly around here?

I don't keep bringing it up. I want it to stop being brought up, but I have to keep defending myself from people trying to erase my position, when they bring it up. When have I mentioned it otherwise?

 

[Jibby]

Right. Let's take this down a few pegs, ok?

We're all for a bit of discuouse in this thread, but it's clearly going too far.

This is a prime example why we've been so hesitant to allow open discussion of the EGS debacle because it obviously cannot be done without devolving into this trash-tier vitriolic back and forth.

I don't care who started it, who said what, etc. it ends now or the thread gets locked and warnings get issued.

 

[Zoyous]

Maybe you should go ahead and issue your warnings because I do care who started it and who said what. And we'll discuss this among the admins of this site and read through the posts, because it matters from whom the trash talk and vitriol is coming and it's not going to be good enough for you to say that this has been equally stoked by all involved properties.

 

[Jibby]

I stand by what I said. End it. Use the ignore button if you must, but we're not tolerating discussion of that quality on these boards. It's not going to continue, this is the final warning - to all parties involved.

 

[Stiz]

Well, since this is a thread about Epic Game Store here is a one news bit about features for now and the future.

Epic Games Store August Feature Update - Cloud Saves, Humble Bundle Keyless Integration, and More

Epic posted an update on new features coming to the store. As it's probably the hottest debate going on right now, I thought it was worthy of a post. Not the most exciting update, and, still doesn't seem to address some of the more wanted features, but, better than nothing I guess. Cloud saves...

www.resetera.com