Were you happier with no Shenmue III? Or do you prefer living in a post-Shenmue III world?

spud1897 said:
Shenmue 2 also had a cash grind.
Click to expand...
I don't understand this persistent need to say "but but Shenmue 1 did this!" or "Shenmue 2 did that too!"

Shenmue 1 and 2 are among my favorite games ever, but they aren't perfect. There were things I didn't like about both games. The hope is that what didn't work well in those first 2 games would be learned from and improved upon. Nobody likes the grinding for money, or progression being stonewalled by having to work for that money, but using this defense doesn't excuse it in Shenmue 3, and it doesn't give it a "nostalgic" feel. It's easier to excuse in a 20 year old game, not so much in a brand new game 20 years later.

At least with the first 2 games, when you did have to grind there was great reward in the story moving forward.
 
Down by Law said:
Blame wikipedia lol

Shenmue III, developed by Suzuki's company Ys Net, was released in 2019 for PlayStation 4 and Windows. The Shenmue games consist of open-world 3D environments interspersed with brawler battles and quick time events.
Click to expand...
Seriously? You're citing wikipedia? That's weak bro.

S3 is '1999 open world', and thats fine. Absolutely fine. I didn't expect a Witcher or GTA size map.

There's 'open world', like Yakuza, and there's open world, like AC, Witcher, Elder Scrolls. Shit, i would argue God of War isn't open world as such.

The point i'm making is that the effort (time, money) in making S3's world is in no way comparable to something like GTA's.
 
Down by Law said:
I love how you're getting your knickers in a twist over the definition of open world, then go and cite Yakuza as an open world game which is probably a smaller map than even Shenmue 2 is.
Click to expand...
Whoosh. That's the point. Technically, Yakuza IS open world...but we know it isn't really. Just like Shenmue.
 
Shenmue is open world. "Open world" isn't defined by the size of the map. There's enormous open world games, and there's much smaller open world games. You don't get to redefine what open world means just because "it's not like GTA".
 
Open World is such a nebulous term. Technically any game without levels is open world this includes Zelda, every RPG ever made etc.

When people talk about open world in the modern sense I think they're talking about the established formula in the past 10+ years of having a large sandbox world with discrete missions littered in it. By that definition Shenmue wasn't ever open world and had more in common with RPG's
 
Thomasina said:
I don't understand this persistent need to say "but but Shenmue 1 did this!" or "Shenmue 2 did that too!"

Shenmue 1 and 2 are among my favorite games ever, but they aren't perfect. There were things I didn't like about both games. The hope is that what didn't work well in those first 2 games would be learned from and improved upon. Nobody likes the grinding for money, or progression being stonewalled by having to work for that money, but using this defense doesn't excuse it in Shenmue 3, and it doesn't give it a "nostalgic" feel. It's easier to excuse in a 20 year old game, not so much in a brand new game 20 years later.

At least with the first 2 games, when you did have to grind there was great reward in the story moving forward.
Click to expand...
Because the fact remains you still had to do it and I'm not quite sure why people act surprised when it is brought up. But it's not that difficult to get funds in III. I spent 2 in-game days, chopping and herb collecting and by the end had 3800 yuan, down to 2700 when I bought a snake power, 2 moves and some other bits. I'm searching for the bookie so I'm minted already. So if people engage with the idea of herb collecting etc then money is easy. Should it have been done twice... probably not but again money isn't too tough to come by and I prefer this to carrying bloody boxes lol.

That said I agree with you, there is far more reward in the story, certainly in Shenmue 2.
 
Shenmue are the only adventure games I know where money has real value, coherently integrated into the world and so truly rewarding when you earned some as you said. If you want money, you have to deserve it, because you're only a student and the journey is real.

I think the grinding in Shenmue 3 suffered from the same problem of the timed window of side quests. The world didn't feel immersive enough to make the player psychologically accept the mechanic as much as Shenmue 2. As a result, they felt rather as quest fillers. The herbs system may also have the perverse effect to act like a banal orb system where you can collect money easily by wandering when you're in a critical situation.

It's unsure if Suzuki will be able to continue the system in S4 since it needs a pretty heavy ecosystem of mini games.
 
spud1897 said:
I spent 2 in-game days, chopping and herb collecting and by the end had 3800 yuan
Click to expand...
That's the definition of grinding, spending 2 entire in-game days doing nothing but repetitive chores to meet a required sum.
It's not fun and it's not worth defending.
 
ShenSun said:
To each their own, but bailu was amazing for me and im glad they put arcades and games there. It made it more enjoyable and gave us more options to spend our time. Im sure i recall Suzuki even saying making it too realistic is boring which i agree. Plus i doubt the everyday gamer would even make it to niaowu if the arcade games were soley there. It was the right call.

Personally, i think the issues with the ending, story and character development has led people to criticise every aspect of the game. If the game had Baisha and was fleshed out to its original vision, im sure ppl would appreciate the build up more. When the series is all said and done i think people will appreciate Shenmue 3 more. It was a nice cozy experience and sets the stage perfectly for Shenmue 4

For me, Bailu is one of my favorite areas in the entire series. Niaowu not so much, but i may enjoy it more now if i replay it with all the dlc.

Personally i think even if Shenmue 4 did everything right and was better than shenmue 1 and 2, there would be still be people moaning and complaining. Suzuki just needs to make Shenmue 4 and 5 the way he wants to and just throw it out there and move on. Those who enjoy it wil enjoy it, those who wont enjoy it, wont enjoy it.
Click to expand...

I guess my issue is that Suzuki has designed this immersive detailed world. As someone who takes Shenmue's world-building seriously, this is something I cannot overlook. The list of minigames I provided could be just as entertaining while retaining narrative consistency. In fact, that's the very reason I praised minigames like herb collecting and fishing. Also, video games like Animal Crossing and Harvest Moon prove that gamers do embrace the slice of life genre.

Nowhere in my post did I state that I wanted Shenmue to be more realistic. If anything, the mysticism is what drew me to the franchise in the first place. As for fans complaining, that's going to happen no matter what.
 
Last edited:
Thomasina said:
That's the definition of grinding, spending 2 entire in-game days doing nothing but repetitive chores to meet a required sum.
It's not fun and it's not worth defending.
Click to expand...
Not fun in your eyes, its personal opinion & not fact. So stop trying to pass off your opinion as fact. I spent probably the same amount of time in Shenmue 2 back in the day getting the money for the first street fight.

Also many RPG games have elements of grinding in them. Be it for levels, skills or money to get to an endpoint.
 
Last edited:
Guys, @Thomasina has a point.

Grinding in games is never good, whether it be for money, exp, resources, or whatever else.

While some of you may not have minded it much we should be sending the message as fans to YSNet that we don't want Shenmue to continue down this path going forward. Do we really want S4 to have more grinding for money?

I mean I don't personally feel that is a cornerstone of this series. Especially if Shenmue is to gain more mainstream appeal which it requires if you want it to continue.
 
Grinding is perfectly fine and (in MANY cases), fun and a nice diversion from things.

When grinding becomes 75% of the game, THEN it is never good.
 
Whoever said Dobuita has more atmosphere then most new games is correct imo.

It was that atmosphere which got us hooked, whilst SIII does have some atmosphere, the original games just produce so much of it even to this day.

Dobuita > GTA V Los Santos everyday of the week.

I think Yu should have had these priorities in mind with his small budget.

- Atmosphere and a small well detailed world
- Story
- Combat

The rest is nice to have.
 
The capsule toys mean nothing if the area is bland, the capsule toys added to Shenmue 1's atmosphere
 
Truck_1_0_1_ said:
Grinding is perfectly fine and (in MANY cases), fun and a nice diversion from things.
Click to expand...
We may be talking at each other here based on our definition of grinding. If you are talking about for example, slow repetitive turn based combat in an RPG then I would I agree. But if you get to a point in a game where you need to halt progress and spend a significant amount of time (i.e hours) leveling up, it breaks the flow of the game and is widely seen as a bad thing. Worse still if the game makes you do that frequently making grinding a core part of the gameplay loop.

Truck_1_0_1_ said:
When grinding becomes 75% of the game, THEN it is never good
Click to expand...
Is 75% your threshold? It's hard to quantify but Shenmue 3 is like 30%-50% grinding. I would say that's a lot by any games standard.

I would certainly want Shenmue 4 to lean away from that as I would think most people would.
 
We must have different definitions of grinding because to me that implies doing the same thing over and over and over. You can earn money fighting, betting, chopping, fishing, herb picking, forklifting, winning arcade games and pawning. If you can't do some tasks from that list to earn money and advance the plot and consider that a grind then that's a shame. And besides if you've done some of the above already through natural game play it's as easy as going to a vendor and cashing in.

I don't see why Shenmue 2 gets a free pass because you can save scum it. The games trying to teach you that money is a precious commodity and you should be wise and not waste it and that earning money is tough. Yes you can win big by gambling but just as easy lose it all... Or you can do some solid labour for guaranteed returns...just like real life. Isn't that what Shenmue is all about?
 
In terms of grinding, on their original play-through did anyone else just wood chop their way to 2000 even if it took longer cause fishing and gambling are not that fun
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top