Is Yu Suzuki out of touch with gaming standards?

[GhostTrick]

While I do get the complaint about the menu it really doesn't massively impact the experience. Who in their right mind remembers a game menu after the event?

I agree it doesn't look great, the previous 2 were fine and I'm not sure why they didn't do another like those.

First are foremost in any gaming experience for me is how the game plays, does it deliver an enjoyable time, does it tell a good story.

Then controls, as I've played some games with terrible controls over the years. Last Guardian, while good had rubbish controls imo.

It all comes down to the playing of the game. A menu (barring the actual in game ones as they can mess things up) or camera slider doesn't impact a gaming experience for me. For others it might, that's their view, but one I really don't understand

But it hurts when said menu title looks like a student project. And I'm not being hyperbolic here unfortunately.

 

[Dehone]

The logo I can get the complaint and also the inconsistencies in various logos being used. Personally they shouldn't have changed it but it is what it is.

But where does it boarder from a genuine complaint, eg not enough story, to just silly nitpicks that have no bearing on the quality of the game.

Eg a menu screen doesn't have significance on the quality of the game.

Translation quality definitely does, as an example

I guess I'm the odd man out on the logo since the only time I'm going to see it is on the main menu

 

[spud1897]

But it hurts when said menu title looks like a student project. And I'm not being hyperbolic here unfortunately.

That's your opinion. Student project is a little far IMO.

 

[spud1897]

A lot of bullshit responses in this topic. A lot of people are lying to themselves out of their irrational dedication and fanaticism to Suzuki and Shenmue.

Shenmue 3 is a bad game. It's not just a bad game by modern gaming standards, but it's a bad game by Shenmue standards.

Shenmue 1 and 2 weren't about grinding. Shenmue 3 has implemented excessive grinding to the point it detracts from what we've come to expect out of a "Shenmue feel" or "Shenmue experience".

I think Ys Net could have made a good game on the budget they had, but the project was plagued by bad decision making.

The whole food system should have been scrapped, and that's not at all "like Shenmue". The whole gambling thing should have been sorted out. Some of you are saying "Asia" as in all Asian countries have strict gambling laws? Shenmue 1 and 2 just re-released 2 years ago and it didn't have this enormous run-around token system. It had normal gambling with the rewards being money.

Don't talk about "tight budget" when the game has the ridiculous "Face off" game. A team on a tight budget isn't wasting resources on that pointless, nonsensical crap.

We waited 20 years for this series to continue and it seems like the project got off track and lost focus for a bunch of nonsense that has nothing to do with what was great about Shenmue. There's no rational reason to have misteered this project after the base that was established in 1999 and 2001. Shenmue 3 should have been a basic continuation of the first 2 games, focused and tight. Instead we got this neandering mess that just isn't fun to play.

First off tone it down. Saying people have "bullshit" responses is inflammatory. What makes their opinion less important than yours or anyone elses? Not having that crap here.

Secondly if people want to bring up their rationale for why they feel it is or isn't a good game, whatever it is that's fine. They can talk about budget if they want.

You're free to disagree with whatever's posted. But saying its categorically a bad game is your opinion, it's not a fact and shouldn't be stated as fact but as an opinion.

Death Stranding has been classed as a good game by some and trash by others. Whether the person feels it's a good game or not is upto them. Of course reviews and word of mouth get around and people lean on way or another but at the end of the day a good game to 1 person might be trash to another. That's their view.

 

[DragonOfJoejima]

Didn't really explain myself well, but this guy seems to get what I mean. Time stamp already there.

 

[GhostTrick]

That's your opinion. Student project is a little far IMO.

Nah, it's honestly fair.

It's two artworks with a bad font and an icon for the selection.
It's not only barebone, it looks like a placeholder. I know it's not important, but it's still meaningful.
Those are student projects:

There's more effort put into the UI presentation and fonctionnality compared to Shenmue III which is a commercial product.

 

[Thomasina]

Focus less on what you think my tone is, and focus more on what I said about the game.

The food system is a bad idea and it's implemented poorly. The food system aligns perfectly with the "survival" games that were popular in 2015 when the kickstarter went live. DayZ and all the trends that followed it. Is it a coincidence Shenmue 3 introduced a pointless food system after the success of survival games? To me it seems like Ys Net tried to do some "modern things" but they were just implemented very poorly, and by the time Shenmue 3 actually released, those trends had not only passed, but they became very overused.

As someone who plays a lot of games, I don't want a game that just panders to Shenmue fans or a niche base. I want a good game, like Shenmue 1 and 2 were good. A good game that is fun for fans, and that is friendly enough to interest new players.

All the people on these forums saying the game is great and the best game they've ever played, you're doing more harm than good. Don't ignore the invasiveness of the food system, and the padding of doing boring, repetivie chores just to buy more garlic just because you're glad Shenmue 3 exists. I'm glad Shenmue is back too, but I'm concerned about the future of the series because Shenmue 3 turned out to be a poorly made game unless you're a diehard Shenmue fan.

Shenmue isn't a series about grinding, and yet Shenmue 3 has an overwhelming amount of grinding. Be honest about it.

 

[mjqjazzbar]

Who says it’s the best game they’ve ever played? Many people here dislike the game or think various aspects are disappointing, but many people here—being that it’s a Shenmue fan forum—would like to support the franchise and try to remain optimistic about the series and its future.

 

[B-Man]

Nah, it's honestly fair.

It's two artworks with a bad font and an icon for the selection.
It's not only barebone, it looks like a placeholder. I know it's not important, but it's still meaningful.
Those are student projects:

There's more effort put into the UI presentation and fonctionnality compared to Shenmue III which is a commercial product.

The scopes of these games are much smaller than Shenmue III. Would it have been better if they spent more time polishing the title screen/main menu and less time working on the game itself?

The food system is a bad idea and it's implemented poorly. The food system aligns perfectly with the "survival" games that were popular in 2015 when the kickstarter went live. DayZ and all the trends that followed it. Is it a coincidence Shenmue 3 introduced a pointless food system after the success of survival games? To me it seems like Ys Net tried to do some "modern things" but they were just implemented very poorly, and by the time Shenmue 3 actually released, those trends had not only passed, but they became very overused.

Yu Suzuki always wanted to implement such a system in the original games, but didn't get the chance to then. It has nothing to do with survival games that were popular in 2015.

All the people on these forums saying the game is great and the best game they've ever played, you're doing more harm than good.

Who is saying this? A lot of people think the game was great, and that's a legitimate opinion despite the fact that you disagree. But I literally don't remember seeing a single person on these forums even say that it's their favorite Shenmue game, let alone "the best game they've ever played." I see at least as much, if not more, negativity about the game here than positivity.

And just because you personally don't like the gameplay loop, that doesn't make it objectively bad.

 

[Thomasina]

There was a video linked in the topic earlier literally titled something like "Why Shenmue 3 is the greatest game I've ever played".

I want to remain optimistic about the continuation of the series too, but Shenmue 3 doesn't evoke those feelings. I can't imagine a new player enjoying this game at all. Bailu village was especially difficult to slog through.

If Shenmue 4 happens, I'll buy it. I won't do kickstarter though. I dropped over $1000 on this game and I'm not having fun with it.

 

[GhostTrick]

The scopes of these games are much smaller than Shenmue III. Would it have been better if they spent more time polishing the title screen/main menu and less time working on the game itself?

Those are student projects. Not commercial products. Let's not pretend making better menus would've take a lot of time and staff.

 

[Thomasina]

And just because you personally don't like the gameplay loop, that doesn't make it objectively bad.

But it is objectively bad in comparison to what we had with previous Shenmues. Instead of having fun playing games and exploring, I'm grinding away at chopping wood and fishing so I can buy heads of garlic to replenish my health so I can run and train.

How can you read that sentence and not agree it's objectively bad?

Horse stance is grinding. 1 inch punch is grinding.

Grinding. Don't deny the game has a lot of grinding. Did you grind excessively in Shenmue 1 and 2? I certainly didn't. And I wasn't worried about garlic in Shenmue 1 and 2 either. There were a lot of bad decisions made.

 

[code l name]

Is it a coincidence Shenmue 3 introduced a pointless food system after the success of survival games? To me it seems like Ys Net tried to do some "modern things" but they were just implemented very poorly, and by the time Shenmue 3 actually released, those trends had not only passed, but they became very overused.

That’s demonstrably not true. Since the original Shenmue he’s considered the player being able to order food, like ramen. Whether it would have worked as current stamina system isn’t clear but from another interview it sounded like they researched what foods would be most beneficial for martial artist, so as usual his ambition exceeded what we got in the final game.

 

[Thomasina]

Whether or not he had the idea, it wasn't implemented. Probably for good reason. It was a common trend around 2015, maybe that inspired him to finally implement it. I don't know. Either way it's a bad idea and poor use of resources on a limited budget. It adds nothing to the enjoyment of the game, but rather detracts from it.

Did you watch Tyson Fury vs Deontay Wilder last night? Do you think either of them were eating whole heads of garlic in the lead up to their fight?

Whatever research he did for the whole food system, it turned out as poorly as one could imagine.

 

[code l name]

Did you grind excessively in Shenmue 1 and 2? I certainly didn't.

I spent literally weeks in game in original Shenmue training and levelling up all my moves in the empty car park. With Shenmue 3 the fact you have three distinct training mini games along with mastering new skill books via sparing made it a lot more enjoyable and diverse for me.

Finally I should note, despite my first playthrough being on the second to hardest difficulty I never felt I needed to grind for money thanks to the herb collecting. If you didn’t partake in that I could see where potential problems could arise.

 

[B-Man]

Let's not pretend making better menus would've take a lot of time and staff.

Probably not, but considering that nearly everyone here has misgivings about some aspects of the game itself (usually having to do with something or another feeling half-baked), I don't think they should have wasted any more time than they did on something inconsequential like the title screen.

But it is objectively bad in comparison to what we had with previous Shenmues. Instead of having fun playing games and exploring, I'm grinding away at chopping wood and fishing so I can buy heads of garlic to replenish my health so I can run and train.

How can you read that sentence and not agree it's objectively bad?

Horse stance is grinding. 1 inch punch is grinding.

Grinding. Don't deny the game has a lot of grinding. Did you grind excessively in Shenmue 1 and 2? I certainly didn't. And I wasn't worried about garlic in Shenmue 1 and 2 either. There were a lot of bad decisions made.

Of course I don't deny that these aspects are different from the first two games. That doesn't automatically make them bad though.

I can appreciate that you spent so much money on something that you ended up not enjoying. That's a shame and I'm sorry to hear it. But that still doesn't make your opinions fact, which you seem to think is the case.

 

[DragonOfJoejima]

I enjoyed reading this thread a lot more when folk were talking about how good my video is. Can we go back to that please?

 

[B-Man]

I should also add that Shenmue II did indeed have sections that required grinding for money, and the jobs in that game were way less enjoyable than the ones in Shenmue III.

 

[code l name]

Whether or not he had the idea, it wasn't implemented. Probably for good reason. It was a common trend around 2015, maybe that inspired him to finally implement it. I don't know.

You indicated the food system was likely put in place because of its use in survival horror games and that it was on trend in 2015. I proved to you this was an idea that had percolated in Suzuki’s mind way back in the original games. Never mind Suzuki has gone on record countless times about the fact he doesn’t play games so to say he put in a mechanic because it was popular at the time beggars belief.

 

[spud1897]

Focus less on what you think my tone is, and focus more on what I said about the game.

The food system is a bad idea and it's implemented poorly. The food system aligns perfectly with the "survival" games that were popular in 2015 when the kickstarter went live. DayZ and all the trends that followed it. Is it a coincidence Shenmue 3 introduced a pointless food system after the success of survival games? To me it seems like Ys Net tried to do some "modern things" but they were just implemented very poorly, and by the time Shenmue 3 actually released, those trends had not only passed, but they became very overused.

As someone who plays a lot of games, I don't want a game that just panders to Shenmue fans or a niche base. I want a good game, like Shenmue 1 and 2 were good. A good game that is fun for fans, and that is friendly enough to interest new players.

All the people on these forums saying the game is great and the best game they've ever played, you're doing more harm than good. Don't ignore the invasiveness of the food system, and the padding of doing boring, repetivie chores just to buy more garlic just because you're glad Shenmue 3 exists. I'm glad Shenmue is back too, but I'm concerned about the future of the series because Shenmue 3 turned out to be a poorly made game unless you're a diehard Shenmue fan.

Shenmue isn't a series about grinding, and yet Shenmue 3 has an overwhelming amount of grinding. Be honest about it.

When your tone basically implies your opinion has more weight/is 100% right then I'm going to call it out.

Saying people are irrational because they liked the game, if that's their view then that's their view. If they want to focus on the good stuff then why shouldn't they? If that's their honest view then what's the problem? Just because you dont like it doesn't mean everyone should instantly hate the game. That's the impression you're touting/passing off as fact.

Did I like the stamina system, it wasn't done the best it could have been and I've commented how it could have been done better IMO in another topic.

I've no issues over your points you raise. My views differ and that's that & if you go on social media you will see theres probably a 60/40 split in favour of Shenmue III. Would it be more like 80/20 if the game was like Shenmue 2, definitely. Shenmue III has many flaws, discussed so many times that we all know what they are.

People liking or disliking the game isn't them being dishonest, it's their view and should be respected and not passed off as something irrational or stupid which your original post implied.