Is Yu Suzuki out of touch with gaming standards?

mjqjazzbar said:
It would’ve been cool to have the QTE prompts in the actual combat. I would’ve actually preferred that to pressing R2 to execute a command shortcut.
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That makes no sense. The whole point of the R2 shortcuts was to automatically perform desired move, otherwise you would just input the required buttons to pull off the move which is what the QTE button prompts attempt to teach the player.
 
code l name said:
Again another factual inaccuracy. While in sparing mode each move (new moves) or purchased skill book will have a gauge bar, every time you pull off the move successfully the gauge will fill up. If you pull off QTE button sequences for said move when prompted this will fill up gauge faster allowing you to eventually master the move.
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You misunderstood what I said, or I didn't say it clearly.

In sparring, there is a qte that appears on screen to practice your selected move. If you wait for the qte to show you the commands, you get a "slow" "reward". If you input the commands before it even shows you, then you get "great" or whatever it's called.

So what I'm saying is, why am I rewarded for doing it before it shows me what to do? I hope that makes sense.

And since we're on the subject of sparring, there's a lot more to it than just sparring.
1) You need to replenish your health before and after you spar. If you want to spar, you've got to work and buy food.
2) Why does fighting in the dojo not increase your stats at all? Isn't that just another form of training? When I go to the dojo in Bailu village and I defeat their entire crew of martial artists, I gain nothing from it when an experience system exists in the game. I don't understand why that was left out of training. Additionally, losing in these fights has the consequence of leaving you with no health, so again, you need to go work and buy garlic. I actually started to only challenge the different duans in Bailu village at night so I wouldn't have to replenish my health 'cause I could just go home and sleep. This is all very bizarre design that leads to a lesser gaming experience.

When you avoid engaging the game's tasks and systems because you are reprimanded by having to do more grinding, that is bad game design.
 
code l name said:
That makes no sense. The whole point of the R2 shortcuts was to automatically perform desired move, otherwise you would just input the required buttons to pull off the move which is what the QTE button prompts attempt to teach the player.
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Yeah I kinda liked the removal of Battle QTE's those pissed me off in Shenmue II, that's one of the reasons why I think II had worse gameplay than 3.
 
Shenmue 3 isn't a good game. Its a damn good game. At least to me it is. I loved it

I actually like it more than Shenmue 1. It does have its issues though which does hold it back from reaching its true potential. I still think Shenmue 2 is the gold standard.

Well whatever. Keep it civil fellas and have fun whichever side you fall on. Lay off the snarky remarks and passive aggressiveness though. Opposing opinions and debate is always a good thing as long as its done in a healthy way.

Stay cool 👊
 
At the end of the day the good thing is that Yu Suzuki will do what he want, and can afford, with his saga and every moaning about this or that is pointless for him like if we were discussing about who should play in the national football team.

People is going bananas like they did with Scorsese for not liking Marvel because Yu Suzuki did his game and not what some people wanted. Live with it, cry all you want, but when we are talking about a creative piece of work like a videogame the decissions are taken by the director, and if he wanted to expend money in something that you love, good for you, and if you hate it, I am sorry for you. But fan moobs helps zero.

Btw, I like the game but I can see things that I don't like in it and I have discused them here and in my podcast, but according to some people not hating the game is being a fanboy. Whatever.
 
Jigen said:
Boy you are just a fucking negative person.
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I love gaming. And I love Shenmue. But I'm not having fun in Shenmue 3. And I spent over $1000 supporting a game I ultimately am not enjoying because of bad game design. My wife has watched me play through S1 and S2, and I was legit embarrassed when she saw me playing S3 and I was grinding away in fishing or whatever I was doing at the time. She asked me why I kept doing the same thing over and over again.

Anyway, think of it like this: You have a family to support on a tight budget. Your wife sends you out to get groceries so you can eat this week. You instead come home with a PS4 and a bunch of games you bought. Your wife isn't pleased when she sees what you did, and you say to her: "You are just a fucking negative person".

Ys Net had a responsibility to uphold when they made S3: To show that this series was worth reviving and to show that it's worth supporting future endeavors. That means they need to make a quality game that can appeal not only to old fans, but to some new players. The challenge Ys Net (and fans) face now is who is going to fund S4 and why?

When I supported S3 in 2015, it never crossed my mind he'd experiment with implementing some kind of food system, or have the player grind for hours to maintain that food system.

Shenmue 3 is my first and only bad Shenmue experience. I have 4 PS4 copies in my home, and I don't expect to ever replay S3 again. I'm struggling to get through my first play through. But I am looking forward to replaying S1 and S2 tho. They are great games.
 
Kyo_JP said:
Btw, I like the game but I can see things that I don't like in it and I have discussed them here and in my podcast, but according to some people not hating the game is being a fanboy. Whatever.
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What language is your podcast in? If English, I'd be interested in checking it out.

I already said it's perfectly fine to like Shenmue 3, but to make a "review" in which you whine about Uncharted 2, and gush about how Shenmue 3 is the greatest game you've ever played without talking about all the grinding and how nonsensicel the food system is, or how ridiculous face off is, then yeah, you're a fanboy. Might as well own it.

I listen to the Shenmue AM2 podcast and they've yet to review the game. I have a feeling they don't like it and are hesitant to make that podcast. I'd be fairly certain Matt doesn't like it at all. ( I do know they've had some personal issues also possibly causing delays).
 
Isn’t Dragon of Joejima’s show or website predominantly about Yakuza? I assume he genuinely likes Shenmue 3 for whatever reason, so I would hesitate to keep calling him a biased fanboy. I’m not gonna browbeat people for loving or hating this game as long as I feel they’re genuine and I don’t buy the argument we need to criticize the hell out of it so Yu Suzuki listens. He’s gonna make the game he’s gonna make and there’s nothing any of us can say or do to change that.
 
Thomasina said:
In sparring, there is a qte that appears on screen to practice your selected move. If you wait for the qte to show you the commands, you get a "slow" "reward". If you input the commands before it even shows you, then you get "great" or whatever it's called.
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Again that’s not exactly true. I discussed this during trial and later during full game release but I’ve certainly got “good” or “great” marks for repeating QTE button sequence even after it initially being displayed on screen.

As far as I can tell, it’s about matching as close as possible the timing of the button sequence, thus you can secure good grades by repeating button commands even after it initially appears on screen. The game does suffer from healthy amount of input latency which just adds to the problem, so I can see why there could be confusion on your end.

When you avoid engaging the game's tasks and systems because you are reprimanded by having to do more grinding, that is bad game design.
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That’s where Shenmue 3 provides options. I mean if you aren’t going to engage in the circular economy in one form or another of course your experience is going to suffer.

Let me give you an example, I’m not the biggest fan of gambling. It’s an occasional fun distraction but I never really engaged in it in any meaningful way in Shenmue 2 (outside trying to get those god dam move scrolls in lucky hit stand in Kowloon) or in 3. I detest luck based systems and once turtle racing stoped becoming a reliable way to earn money I searched for another options. And thankfully there are options, as I alluded to in an earlier post herb collecting was the main way I earned money in my original play through. In addition I would occasionally engage in wood chopping, fishing and later forklift job which meant at no point was my progress through main game was halted to earn money.

Now you can say you didn’t like wood chopping or fishing, but the game gave players many more options to engage in the circular economy, much more than Shenmue 2 ever did where your options were to try your luck at gambling (assuming you didn’t break down and save scum), move boxes or pray to god you would earn more than $50 running a lucky hit stand and wasting many in game hours doing so.
 
Thomasina said:
A lot of bullshit responses in this topic. A lot of people are lying to themselves out of their irrational dedication and fanaticism to Suzuki and Shenmue.

Shenmue 3 is a bad game. It's not just a bad game by modern gaming standards, but it's a bad game by Shenmue standards.

Shenmue 1 and 2 weren't about grinding. Shenmue 3 has implemented excessive grinding to the point it detracts from what we've come to expect out of a "Shenmue feel" or "Shenmue experience".

I think Ys Net could have made a good game on the budget they had, but the project was plagued by bad decision making.

The whole food system should have been scrapped, and that's not at all "like Shenmue". The whole gambling thing should have been sorted out. Some of you are saying "Asia" as in all Asian countries have strict gambling laws? Shenmue 1 and 2 just re-released 2 years ago and it didn't have this enormous run-around token system. It had normal gambling with the rewards being money.

Don't talk about "tight budget" when the game has the ridiculous "Face off" game. A team on a tight budget isn't wasting resources on that pointless, nonsensical crap.

We waited 20 years for this series to continue and it seems like the project got off track and lost focus for a bunch of nonsense that has nothing to do with what was great about Shenmue. There's no rational reason to have misteered this project after the base that was established in 1999 and 2001. Shenmue 3 should have been a basic continuation of the first 2 games, focused and tight. Instead we got this neandering mess that just isn't fun to play.
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Care to explain this irrational fanaticism to Suzuki and Shenmue when plenty of users here have criticized Shenmue III to the moon and back? Have made countless threads about where the game went wrong and where a potential Shenmue IV could improve? Plenty of people who have enjoyed Shenmue III will admit that the game could have been better. Remember you are on a thread that is questioning Suzuki’s competence without the moderator’s censoring you.

Grinding has always been apart of Shenmue if you wanted to get everything out of the game. In Shenmue Chapter One: Yokosuka, you had to train your moves and getting every collectible required an enormous time sink due to the Random Number Generator. This was even more evident in Shenmue II which expanded on everything. I mean earning the gold medal for duck racing required grinding. If anything, the grinding of your moves in Shenmue III makes sense since martial arts are a core component of the series’ identity. The same could be said of eating, since a good diet is a crucial part of being a martial artist.

When it comes to the roundabout way gambling works, keep in mind that Tencent is a powerful Chinese gaming conglomerate. Or that the Chinese government is finally allowing video games to be played legally within China. And that China’s economy is a very lucrative one that many foreign companies want to exploit. So if China has strict laws regarding gambling, why shouldn’t Y’s Net/Deep Silver get around it? Also it does not impair Suzuki’s vision too badly so its a fair compromise in my opinion. If SEGA had any interest in releasing the HD remasters in China, I have no doubt they probably would’ve either removed gambling altogether or introduced their own roundabout way of getting around Chinese law.

You have an interesting definition of “Tight and Focused” when describing the first two games when they had a bigger budget on top of expanding on their side activities. Also everybody likes different elements in Shenmue, what one person likes is another’s waste of time. Some enjoy Shenmue purely for the story, others for the combat, and some enjoy the series for its abundance of mini games and mundane moments. If Shenmue III is an example of anything, its that it tried to do everything the first two games did with a much smaller budget.

I understand your frustration with spending such a large amount of money on something you had such hope for but ended up being a disappointment. So your criticisms are perfectly valid, but you are not going to get anyone to see your points if you come in here discounting other people’s opinions as being “blind fanatics”.
 
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Jigen said:
Yeah I kinda liked the removal of Battle QTE's those pissed me off in Shenmue II, that's one of the reasons why I think II had worse gameplay than 3.
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Was that what he was proposing? I loved command QTE’s in Shenmue 2 as they were responsible for some of the most cinematic and nicely choreographed moments in the game. Not to mention incredibly satisfying when pulled off.

With that said given how broken the QTE timing window was in Shenmue 3 perhaps it was a blessing in disguise they were omitted.
 
Just wanna make that point crystal clear again to everybody.

Discuss what you want and share whatever opinions you have, but do not post snarky remarks of being a "fanboy" or a "true fan" or anything else in that context.

Also no holy than thou post on how your opinion is the objective truth and better than everybody elses. This isn't a highschool playground or a teenage social media thread. We're all grown adults here.

Aways remember, we all differ and thats ok. Just be respectful to each other and enjoy the banter.

Cheers guys.
 
Thomasina said:
I love gaming. And I love Shenmue. But I'm not having fun in Shenmue 3. And I spent over $1000 supporting a game I ultimately am not enjoying because of bad game design. My wife has watched me play through S1 and S2, and I was legit embarrassed when she saw me playing S3 and I was grinding away in fishing or whatever I was doing at the time. She asked me why I kept doing the same thing over and over again.

Anyway, think of it like this: You have a family to support on a tight budget. Your wife sends you out to get groceries so you can eat this week. You instead come home with a PS4 and a bunch of games you bought. Your wife isn't pleased when she sees what you did, and you say to her: "You are just a fucking negative person".

Ys Net had a responsibility to uphold when they made S3: To show that this series was worth reviving and to show that it's worth supporting future endeavors. That means they need to make a quality game that can appeal not only to old fans, but to some new players. The challenge Ys Net (and fans) face now is who is going to fund S4 and why?

When I supported S3 in 2015, it never crossed my mind he'd experiment with implementing some kind of food system, or have the player grind for hours to maintain that food system.

Shenmue 3 is my first and only bad Shenmue experience. I have 4 PS4 copies in my home, and I don't expect to ever replay S3 again. I'm struggling to get through my first play through. But I am looking forward to replaying S1 and S2 tho. They are great games.
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It's not just that you're negative. It's that you keep trying to pass your opinion off as fact and insult people that actually like the game. Guess what? Different people think differently! You are not the authority on what's enjoyable in a game and what's not. Shocking, I know.

mjqjazzbar said:
Here’s how I would’ve gotten around those cutscenes:

1. Ryo comes downstairs, money leaves his wallet. We already know the innkeeper wants his money.

2. Ryo walks past Shenhua, a button prompt comes up if you really want to hear Ryo and Shenhua have the same exact exchange they have every day.

Both would cost Ys Net zero development time and not annoy anyone. I have no idea why they kept these weird things in the game.

Anyway, they didn’t ruin the game for me. They’re just things I found odd and annoying.
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I agree, but I think it's a bit strange to single out these things as not understanding why they were kept in the game when the Come Over Guest House guy did the same thing in Shenmue II. Sure, it's more egregious here but it was extremely annoying then too. I don't know why you're so surprised. Even the AM2 play testers didn't recognize that as being annoying.

Then again, perhaps they felt it was out of necessity because earning money was such a damn chore in Shenmue II that they felt the need to allow you to choose to never pay the guy.

As for Face Off, I didn't mind it but I admit that I played it a lot more during my first playthrough than I would have if I had realized that the affinity system was completely scrapped and that it didn't lead to anything.
 
B-Man said:
I agree, but I think it's a bit strange to single out these things as not understanding why they were kept in the game when the Come Over Guest House guy did the same thing in Shenmue II. Sure, it's more egregious here but it was extremely annoying then too. I don't know why you're so surprised. Even the AM2 play testers didn't recognize that as being annoying.
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Those elements have always been there. Ryo every day taking moment to pick up his allowance in first game, or short good morning sequence he would receive from Fangmei, Cool Z or Joy depending on his location.

Maybe it’s just my perspective but I always took this to create sense of familiarity and routine, which I think inherently are part of the games.
 
code l name said:
Those elements have always been there. Ryo every day taking moment to pick up his allowance in first game, or short good morning sequence he would receive from Fangmei, Cool Z or Joy depending on his location.

Maybe it’s just my perspective but I always took this to create sense of familiarity and routine, which I think inherently are part of the games.
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Agreed. I wasn't really bothered by the little Shenhua conversations to be honest. It was the hotel lady that got annoying after a while. She could have just done the "Don't tell me you don't have any cash" bit the first time and then they could have had your money be automatically deducted everyday after that.
 
I also think Shenmue 3 is about the mid point of the story, usually the weakest part as it is building up to the major turning point in the story.
 
I liked face-off. It was odd but it showed a new side to Ryo which we haven't seen before. He was actually laughing, smiling, having fun and connecting with someone else. We havent really seen him do that since he lost his father. I thought it was good character development, as was all of the conversations he had with Shenhua.

The routine stuff, i think needs to be in Shenmue to immerse you into the game. I think it adds to the realism and true day/night cycle. It was lovely saying good morning to Shenhua or her waving me off everyday. The niaowu hotel lady was great.... Especially if you had no money to pay her lol. Hopefully in Shenmue 4, they'll allow you to skip these scenes if you want so that everyone is satisfied. Personally i adore them though
 
B-Man said:
Agreed. I wasn't really bothered by the little Shenhua conversations to be honest. It was the hotel lady that got annoying after a while. She could have just done the "Don't tell me you don't have any cash" bit the first time and then they could have had your money be automatically deducted everyday after that.
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Oh yeah I think the Shenhua talks were one of the most quintessential "Shenmue" things about 3.
 
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