Coronavirus

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Saving the economy would, ironically, be looking after the needs of the many. The other option would be more a case of protecting the vulnerable.

Personally I'd prefer if we (and when I say we, I mean you lot) remain locked down. Fewer people on the tram means I get a seat.

Honestly though, there are no good outcomes to this. Whilst many countries including our own, have been slower to react than they should've been, we've still reacted early enough for it to not be a pandemic straight out of fiction.

All we can do really is hope we can give scientists the time they need, take the pressure off the NHS, and most importantly, follow the advice to the letter.
 
Surely it's all just about ensuring our health system isn't overwhelmed and pushed past breaking point?

A balance needs to be found, in terms of reducing pressure and not simply allowing huge numbers of people to die, whilst keeping the economy and society running. But I'm not sure how it can be achieved. My guess is we'll have this lockdown in the UK for a few months. I expect things will become stricter in a a week or two or if not then, by April. Then I expect there will be a gradual lift on social restrictions over the course of a month or two. I expect certain things will remain (bans on large gatherings), but other areas will return to normal. Then I would guess as numbers begin to rise again we'll have another lockdown and we'll have an on off situation until we can get this sorted and a vaccine is made available.

That said, who knows? Maybe all these new drugs and tests will start to get pumped out and we may find ourselves in a much better place more quickly than I anticipate. If we can find out who has had it, who has built up some immunity (to this strain), then surely we start to get a better grip on this.
 
Well, official lockdown started in Spain 16 days ago, I have been in lockdown 20 days now.

Starting tomorrow we have an even harder lockdown, two more weeks and I am pretty sure it will be longer. The thing is that taking Italy as a point of reference every country can calculate (with a certain delay) how long the confinament will be.

The worst thing for me is that I am pretty sure that China is lying about their number, also the German death count is manipulated to only show direct cause of death, when in other countries they are counting every dead infected. Some northern european countries are cheating with their number to look like they are in control, spoiler, they are not.
 
Nathanial Essex said:
Last time I went out I didn't. When I go out next time, I may have to. Reason being you don't know what idiot will do what.
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well i wore a basic mask, hidden under a thin snood scarf + baseball hat ( like attached photo) when i went to the supermarket yesterday, i probably looked more like a yob/mugger. no one was laughing as they probably though i was sick + they kept their distance ( bonus).. other people were wearing masks and i dont blame them as thre were sick people coughing in the Store :censored: - ive got a real m3 mask for spray painting but i think it would be overkill if i wore it out.


Kyo_JP said:
The worst thing for me is that I am pretty sure that China is lying about their number,
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there is some talk online that china's death toll is over the 40 Thousand mark. not sure if its true but i dont belive the chinese Governments number.
 

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Honestly @Reprise, I'm not sure we're capable of balance. All this talk I see on the news of easing restrictions is ludicrous.

Businesses will reopen at the earliest opportunity. More people about. These businesses will need customers/clients. More people about. The need for travel will mean... More people about.

Social distancing sounds straight forward, but can be genuinely difficult rather than just massively inconvenient. At the moment I make sure I put the effort in on the way to and from work. At work though, you can't stick it 100% there aren't many workplaces that can properly accommodate this, try as they might (and to their credit, they have tried a lot)

I honestly struggle during this sorta lockdown, so I can already tell that lifting the restrictions gradually just isn't a reasonable option. And that's not to say "everybody's impatient, selfish, and unhygienic", because we're not all like that. But it only takes one to be like that. And another to make a mistake. One more to be oblivious to something...

No, I reckon full on lockdown til it's properly under control is what we need. Get the TA on the streets to sort the scrotes out. We'll take a massive hit, but if it truly is as potentially bad as the experts say, it'll be worth it.

I'm definitely not a fan of being what would essentially be a military state on a temporary basis, however there really are periods in history when the people just have to suck it up. This seems like one of those times.

Our country - and many others like ourselves - have had it so fucking cushty it's unreal. None of us are prepared for these kinda hardships, which I assume is why so many were bulk purchasing in a panic. They're turning to the source they're most familiar with on how to deal with it: fucking apocalyptic fiction.

Another thing of note is how I've seen Dubai handle hygiene: street sanitisation... via drones. Now, I'm sure they can afford it, and we can't, but I also reckon that the opportunity for enthusiasts to get involved in being part of the solution wouldn't be something they turn their noses up at.

Anyway, I hope that in a year from now we can all look back and say "Do you think we overreacted? Reckon we didn't actually need a lockdown?" And one thing I pray I can say in response is "Fuck knows, but at least it stopped Liverpool winning the league."
 
That just doesn't seem sustainable or realistic to me, but as I said, I have no idea what the best way to manage this is. Fatigue and unrest is already appearing in Italy and the same will occur around the world if this goes on for too long. Yeah, the military/police would try to sort it out, but it won't be pretty.

And the economy will be utterly trashed. The socioeconomic degradation and impact on families, mental health etc. will be arguably as harmful to the country.
 
All true.

I go into the office once a week (only person, place is sanitized weekly on the day I come in) and out for groceries, once a week; that's it.

My wife is off work so IF she leaves, she comes grocery shopping with me (which I've told her not to).

She's significantly worse-off than I, as she has heavy asthma and a much-weaker immune system than I do; she went to bed last night with a headache and super-stuffy nose, woke up this morning with the same.

She's had a few teas, gargled with saltwater and she's feeling much better, she says; she also has major allergies to pollen, grass and the like and it IS allergy season, so that's probably what cropped up last evening.

We are also sure not to step in each other's cars, unless going grocery shopping, to keep everything as contained as possible.

Keep up the vigilance, people! It can't last forever! ;)
 
Reprise said:
That just doesn't seem sustainable or realistic to me, but as I said, I have no idea what the best way to manage this is. Fatigue and unrest is already appearing in Italy and the same will occur around the world if this goes on for too long. Yeah, the military/police would try to sort it out, but it won't be pretty.

And the economy will be utterly trashed. The socioeconomic degradation and impact on families, mental health etc. will be arguably as harmful to the country.
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Essentially you're damned if you do and damned if you don't with this. Whatever a government does it is going to have lasting long term negative impact on the country. This sounds horrendous but you can bet your bottom dollar that some officials will be thinking about letting this run and kill off some of the elderly/weak so they're not having to cough up on pensions.

The impacts here are 2 ways. Close down and the economy gets hammered until it re-opens and eventually we have to repay all that borrowed money to keep afloat. Or we let things run riot, have the workforce infected which hits the economy let alone the people who might die. I don't envy anyone having to make those calls.

What I've always questioned, and this might be an unpopular view, is considering the swine flu pandemic infected 1.6 billion and killed 575k people, why didn't we lock down then? Or why have we chosen to do so now?
 
spud1897 said:
This sounds horrendous but you can bet your bottom dollar that some officials will be thinking about letting this run and kill off some of the elderly/weak so they're not having to cough up on pensions.
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Wasn't that Dominic Cummings' initial plan...? :whistle:

I agree though, they are dammed if they do and dammed if they don't.

Surely, at some stage there has got to be some kind of equilibrium when a large chunk of the population has already had it and either died or built up some immunity and the number of new infections is at a more manageable rate?

Mind you, I do worry about the longterm impacts. There's already been some articles about doctors thinking those who catch it might have longterm damage to their lungs afterwards. No idea if it's true or not.
 
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Yall are aware that ending lockdown would also cripple the economy, and much likely much more harshly, correct? Overwhelming hospitals = more strain on doctors and nurses = more deaths = less people = less buying = worse economy.

Hmm, seems to me that trying to decrease strain on hospitals makes the most sense economically and morally as it could also lead to slowing down transmission of the virus, increase likelihood of a quicker vaccine, as well as save more lives , which well, allows people to buy things, being alive and all.
 
The potential for a premature end to the lockdown being more devastating to the economy would depend on how bad the virus actually is. Different countries have different death rates, different average ages, different ways of calculating the infected to fatality ratio, etc.

You could be right, you could be wrong. Personally I'm leaning towards the latter given the survival rate. Overwhelming the NHS doesn't lead to the economy falling on its arse.

I do agree with all your other points, I just disagree with that one in particular.

At the end of the day though, science had got us pretty fucking far as a species, so let's just leave it all in the hands of scientists. They're in the know. We're outside of the know, which makes us idiots, as we should all be inside self-isolating.
 
The real danger of this virus is not that much the death rate, but the power to colapse the public health system, here in Madrid hospital are colapsed, the local goverment has install an emergency one in the Madrid Fair building and it is also colapsed. About the ratio I think all countries should have a common rule to take it, because I am pretty sure that this is the real reason that Germany has less cases than France, for example.

And about politics, left wing goverments, liberal goverments and conservatives goverments are all of them has been overwhelmed by this pandemic.
 
Interestingly, Sweden has a similar infection rate to that of the UK but has not enforced any lockdown as restaurants, shops and schools remain open.
 
spud1897 said:
What I've always questioned, and this might be an unpopular view, is considering the swine flu pandemic infected 1.6 billion and killed 575k people, why didn't we lock down then? Or why have we chosen to do so now?
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Sometimes it just what's trending and there is no real reason. Kevin Spacey can't get an acting role and is seen as the devil himself because he tried to hit on someone who was underage. Mike Tyson is a convicted rapist and bit of someone's ear off but would be welcomed on any talk show.

I remember swine flu and others but never heard of our health service being overrun (more than usual) and temporary hospitals being built. That seems to be the case here however (though part of me still doubts the seriousness of the situation. Just a part of me)
 
How is everyone getting on anyway? I would think that it would not be such a problem for me if I had a job but I am getting a little frustrated and I am an indoor person. I have a 3 year old and a new born and usually the older one would be at nursery for 2 days a week and I will take him to the park and football 2 days a week. Now, I am with him 24/7 and because there's not much room to run around, he does not tire out easy so is not sleeping in the middle of the day.

We have a small house and his toys literally take up most of the living room space and things are getting a bit messy. I actually need to do a shop tomorrow morning and looking forward to a new scene, even if it means getting there for 6am.
 
How's your 3 year old dealing with it? Mine's ok, but he has had the occasional meltdown. He's also used to going to nursery a couple of times a week, seeing friends, going out and seeing family etc, so it's a big change for someone so small who doesn't understand. He seems to love spending more time with us, but every now and again gets really upset. The other day he wanted to go to the playground, today the park, the other day the beach, oh and this morning on a train ride.

It's exhausting at times.

Hope you're ok man.
 
Thanks bro. To be fair, he's quite low maintenance and he's getting on fine. We go in the garden when it's a little warmer and previously would go to the park before things got stricter. Just feel a little bad leaving him with the ipad at times. I'm looking for jobs and wife has the other one permanently attached to her. He does grab me at times wanting to go outside but rather not chance it as he had pneumonia pretty bad not too long ago.

With that said, spending time inside I've noticed his speech is getting a little better and he's also finally using the potty. Nursery is great but when he's there 4 days a week, 8am to 6pm and then bed a couple hours after he gets home, you realise just how much time you don't spend with him.

One concern though is because he's not running around as much, he doesn't tire and sleep during the day. Easier to put him to bed come 8pm but when he doesn't sleep, he sometimes wakes up a couple hours later screaming and won't go back to sleep.
 
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