Kickstarter Update #102 - PC Gaming Show Update: New Trailer & Epic Games Store Exclusive For PC Version! Part 2

GhostTrick said:
In fact after reading it:

Epic FAQ — Phoenix Point

phoenixpoint.info phoenixpoint.info

It was better than what I said:
It's basically
  1. You get a full year of DLC + EGS key at launch AND after a year you get your Steam key/GoG key + a year of DLC on that platform.
  2. Or you get a full refund.
Click to expand...

If these were the options, I would have zero complaints! Those are pretty generous, and would actually make me rather happy to try out the EGS instead of grudgingly using it for SIII. I try to be pretty easy going, and simply offering something of worth to people who were expecting Steam keys would go a long way for me.
 
They have some absolutely incredible gameplay footage out now and they're wasting it by not just saying backers get steam keys. This is all so stupid and I feel so bad for Yu and the rest of the devs that this had to put a damper on their amazing work.
 
They seem to imply in the PC Gamer article that the money from Epic will make the game better. Now, obviously there's only a few months left of development so realistically they're probably fine-tuning the game, optimising for PS4 Pro etc. But it's possible the cash from Epic will ensure YS Net remains under contract, after the game releases, to produce the Season Pass DLC, regardless of how the game performs.
 
Sadly the PC gamer article updated with a second statement from Deep Silver:

Update 2: Regarding the original quote on backer refunds, Deep Silver reached out to say this. "Deep Silver joined the project long after the Kickstarter was set up and
therefore isn't in a position to comment on the actions as we are not
involved in that side of the project."

This to me is Deep Silver throwing up their hands, not wanting to lose any money on their end, and going, “sorry, that’s not us, please ask the other group.” That to me makes it sound like YsNet is on their own with refunds and may not even have the ability to work with Epic on refunds (presuming Deep Silver was the sole party that made the contract).
 
Shadow2222 said:
Sadly the PC gamer article updated with a second statement from Deep Silver:

Update 2: Regarding the original quote on backer refunds, Deep Silver reached out to say this. "Deep Silver joined the project long after the Kickstarter was set up and
therefore isn't in a position to comment on the actions as we are not
involved in that side of the project."

This to me is Deep Silver throwing up their hands, not wanting to lose any money on their end, and going, “sorry, that’s not us, please ask the other group.” That to me makes it sound like YsNet is on their own with refunds and may not even have the ability to work with Epic on refunds (presuming Deep Silver was the sole party that made the contract).
Click to expand...
If DS wanted a deal with Epic then they should absolutely have to deal with the fallout by footing the bill for refunds.
 
Yeah that's some BS from Deep Silver. The decision to go Epic exclusive has a direct impact on backers. YS Net did not make that decision on their own, therefore DS have to take some responsibility.

If they really are forcing the refund situation on YS Net alone to deal with, people ain't getting those refunds.
 
Dietsoap said:
If DS wanted a deal with Epic then they should absolutely have to deal with the fallout by footing the bill for refunds.
Click to expand...

i know this sounds hard and stupid but technically Deep Silver is not involved in the Kickstarter project.
Deep Silver is the publisher of the final game, they funded and managed their own thing in this project.
none of the Kickstarter rewards are handled by Deep Silver, they didnt promise anything on that page.
and you dont simply buy things on Kickstarter. you give them money, so that they can do the project they want to do
and as a reward you get something back. but Kickstarter is not a shop, Kickstarter is not a pre order page.
you are investing money because you want a project to be a success.
there is no rule that you will get the same value back.

as Kickstarter already commented, there is no guarantee that every project will be a success
and every project creator is responsible for offering a compensation on their own.
there is no guarantee that you will get exactly the thing that you are seeing on the Kickstarter page
and there are no rules that the project creator has to give you what is listed on the Kickstarter page
because technically you didnt buy anything.

then YS Net had Steam in their mind because they probably decided that right as they created the Kickstarter
but again, this has nothing to do with Deep Silver, that offer was from YS Net
because they assumed it would be available there.

i dont want to defend anything, im not on any side and of course its a really bad miscommunication between the parties
but if you look at this from the terms of use / law / whatever side,
i'm pretty sure that this Epic - Deep Silver - YS Net deal is safe and backers cant do anything about that.
again, no defending anything
and of course it would be the right thing to just give backers what they were promised.
 
Well, then Deep Silver should allow YS Net to offer codes on Steam for backers. If they're truly not involved, get out of the way and let YS Net fulfill that part of the reward.
 
orient said:
Well, then Deep Silver should allow YS Net to offer codes on Steam for backers. If they're truly not involved, get out of the way and let YS Net fulfill that part of the reward.
Click to expand...

i dont think this works because:
YS Net just assumed that it would be available on Steam (i mean it makes sense if you create a page for a videogame)
and then Deep Silver came on board and probably said
"yeah let's see ..." and then they got the Epic offer. so now you have the problem
that backers will of course receive the final game version but there is only one final game version
and its published by Deep Silver who doesnt want to sell on Steam. they are business partners with contracts,
thats something else than Kickstarter rewards.

and then we are on the same problematic path again because Kickstarter is not a pre order shop where you just buy things.
there is no promise for anything, you are investing money because you want to help the project.
technically you did not buy a key for Steam, Kickstarter doesnt sell Steam keys,
you gave money to the project because you wanted to help. the rewards like a Steam key for example
are a bonus for your help but that doesnt mean that they have to give it to you.
if the project completely fails and they burn all of the money for nothing its your problem to sort it out with the project creator.
in this special case they dont have the Steam keys anymore and they want to give you a Epic key instead.
so they kind of still fullfilled the reward in the best way they can and thats it.

i know this whole concept is a bit ... you know.
but i'm just saying this because a lot of people think that Kickstarter is nothing else than a online shop.
and this is not true.
 
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I still can’t quite fathom how so many people see this as a simple ‘just give out codes’ situation.

Epic Games didn’t make this deal to make money through sales. The whole point of it and all of the other exclusivity deals they sign is to bring a part of the Steam player base over to their platform.

Given that backer rewards will probably end up making up a significant portion of PC sales (more likely after this deal was announced), they will have wanted all of the backer copies to be tied to the Epic store as well as any sales made during the exclusivity period. I’m all but certain that this is what they paid for and they would never allow DS to issue steam codes or DRM free copies because that would completely defeat the purpose of making the deal in the first place. They have no obligation to backers either legal or moral, so why on earth would they agree to it?

Steam spend a lot of money hosting and maintaining their library and I’m sure will be growing increasingly concerned about the expansion of the Epic Games Store. With this in mind, why would they choose to both lose money by paying to host a game they weren’t profiting from and help out a company that, not for the first time, just stabbed them in the back by choosing to support a direct competitor? It’s in their best interest to sit back and enjoy another EGS controversy playing out.

It’s in the best interest of neither party to allow DS to issue Steam codes and so the chances of either agreeing to it are slim to none. The absolute best case scenario would be if DS were able to produce a DRM free physical copy that backers could install and add to their Steam or Epic Games libraries, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the terms of their contract with Epic forbade them from doing such a thing. If that wasn’t the case, they would have already announced that that was their intention.
 
Terms subject to change...

But folks are still getting Shenmue III on PC...

If you want to rage, that’s your prerogative...

If you want to support the saga over monopolistic launchers who don’t pay developers like Ys Net their fair share, that’s your prerogative as well...
 
mjqjazzbar said:
I always thought dedicating resources to the English dub was a horrible idea and a bad use of the budget. I can't imagine what it cost the game in funds and time, and to what end? Doesn't seem like it paid off based on the reaction to the English version of the trailer. Everyone's back to the 'Shenmue's voice acting is atrocious' story, 'and look at those lip movements!'
Click to expand...

Don't forget, that the opposite is true for Japan. Yu Suzuki himself, preferred the English dub to the Japanese voiced version. Playing through the Japanese version at launch, I could not hear the compression in the voices, due to the language barrier. The English dub when it was released, the compression was heavy (although they may have compressed it more). I personally prefer the Japanese voices, as it is the way I played though the game originally.
 
reminisce said:
If you want to support the saga over monopolistic launchers who don’t pay developers like Ys Net their fair share, that’s your prerogative as well...
Click to expand...
Steam isn't a monopoly. We already have GOG, Origin, Uplay, and several others I don't use. What is a monopoly is buying it as an exclusive so no other store can sell it.

Do you have the payout distribution for PS4? What percentage do developers get from PS4 software sales?

I don't see how the Epic store is a better deal for Ys Net in terms of profit distribution? Who exactly is buying games on Epic Store? The only positive is presumably Epic paying them for exclusivity. Epics profits distribution sounds nice, but if it's not in effect due to low sales, then it just looks good on paper.
 
Thomasina said:
Steam isn't a monopoly. We already have GOG, Origin, Uplay, and several others I don't use. What is a monopoly is buying it as an exclusive so no other store can sell it.

Do you have the payout distribution for PS4? What percentage do developers get from PS4 software sales?

I don't see how the Epic store is a better deal for Ys Net in terms of profit distribution? Who exactly is buying games on Epic Store? The only positive is presumably Epic paying them for exclusivity. Epics profits distribution sounds nice, but if it's not in effect due to low sales, then it just looks good on paper.
Click to expand...

The timed-exclusive deal is similar to consoles and gives Ys Net the resources they need to save the saga through promotional, technological, and financial support...

3102

www.polygon.com

Epic Games Store exclusive Metro Exodus outsells previous game on Steam at launch

Epic is making the case for Epic Games Store exclusives
www.polygon.com www.polygon.com
 
reminisce said:
The timed-exclusive deal is similar to consoles and gives Ys Net the resources they need to save the saga through promotional, technological, and financial support...

View attachment 3102

www.polygon.com

Epic Games Store exclusive Metro Exodus outsells previous game on Steam at launch

Epic is making the case for Epic Games Store exclusives
www.polygon.com www.polygon.com
Click to expand...



Yeah sure, all of that in barely 3 months. :""")

Epic saved the saga 3 months before release !

Talking about propaganda at play here.

Btw, no one cares where the game is sold after. People care abput what they backed though. And when they filled their backer order, well, that was a Steam order.

There's no share at play here since the backers already paid.
 
reminisce said:
The timed-exclusive deal is similar to consoles and gives Ys Net the resources they need to save the saga through promotional, technological, and financial support...
Click to expand...
To save the saga by alienating the majority of PC gamers? Do you think Shenmue 3 will be a success on Epic? I wouldn't be surprised if it's one of the games they give away for free, simply to attract people to the platform.

For the time being, their revenue sharing is irrelevant if games aren't selling, or if they're being given away for free. I inititially thought they're sharing was a good idea, but their attempts to attract people to their barebones store and launcher are disgusting and overly aggressive, and it's turning people away.
 
Hey, if you want to join the internet rage brigade go ahead...I’ll be joining the other 99%+ folks who will enjoy Shenmue III while supporting the Saga...
 
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