Closer to what we expect from an RPG in what sense? The story? The pacing?
The pacing, primarily how quickly the plot advances and how many new characters are introduced. It's much closer to an RPG and I'd argue S1 is closer to an adventure game. I don't even know what I'd compare S3 to besides a filler episode of a TV show.
Because gameplay-wise, Shenmue III is much closer to what we expect from an RPG and those are the aspects of it that you seem to hate the most (grinding, leveling up, etc.).
It shares some superficial mechanical similarity with RPGs, yes but I wouldn't compare it to the kind of character progression you get from a real RPG. You play Wario Ware-esque microgames to level up health, it's not exactly Planescape Torment.
David Cage games have also been published and heavily pushed by Sony since Heavy Rain. Indigo Prophecy/Fahrenheit I would argue is much less mainstream than Shenmue. And are you saying Shenmue didn't have "fancy graphics" in 1999/2000?
Yes and S1's sales reflect that. My entire point is that if S1 and 2 were 1 game and those same people saw the content on offer in S2, the series wouldn't be as widely hated (hence the point of this thread). Because S1 was split and its length padded out, it is far more open to being mocked.
I'm sorry, but I still don't agree. Since we've established that Shenmue I was higher profile and more people played it, has it ever occurred to you that you don't see people mocking it because they haven't played it?
It's certainly possible, especially with the horrible English dub. I just haven't seen any evidence for it since almost all the mocking is at S1 and 3's expense. I know S2 is, shall we say, "quirky".
And regardless of how famous/infamous it is, there is nothing wrong with the asking around for sailors part and I'll die on that hill.
I feel you. It's more the disconnect that it establishes between Ryo and his environment. If I had to guess, S1 in its original state had only a couple of scenes and probably included the letter from Yuanda Zhu as part of the opening cutscene.
Not even sure what you're trying to say here. What potential is there in a pre-rendered CG teaser from Shenmue's Project Berkley/VF RPG days?
The tone of that trailer, and most of the trailers for the Shenmue games is much more conducive to a martial arts epic than a life simulator, I like the mix but I like it to err on the former, rather than the latter. There's a lot of interesting looking shit in that trailer that I would like to get to before game, I don't know, 7...
I feel like literally the only thing you care about with Shenmue is the story and you'd be happier if it was a movie or an anime rather than a game.
Not at all. I didn't like S3 and I consider S1 to be a fatally flawed game. I don't think Shenmue would make a very good movie or anime without dramatically changing it, though I would prefer to see the ending to the story even if it means taking a form other than a game.
So many of your arguments have to do with Shenmue II being more fast paced and action packed. But that is not the essence of Shenmue and I think many fans would agree.
I argued why Guilin is necessary for the pacing and that the Hazuki basement is perhaps the best part of the entire series, what do you mean?
One of the big appeals of Shenmue was the way it focused heavily on the mundane and the realistic world that you got to live in and explore.
As someone who can't look at an elevator without thinking of Shenmue, I totally get this. But there's more to Shenmue than just the detail of the world, interesting things need to happen in it.
The story of Shenmue would be nothing special if it was just a book, manga, comic, movie, anime, etc. Most fans only really got invested in the story because of the way it's presented, as part of this extremely unique and special gaming experience.
Debatable. I certainly see a lot of potential in the story but I can't tell if it's got the goods one way or the other (S3 certainly didn't fill me with confidence). I don't see a reason to continue this series in particular if you're not going to continue the story. If it's gameplay you want then YS could've released a "spiritual successor" and saved a ton of headache.
From what I've heard you say, I truly believe that Shenmue II was an anomaly and for whatever reason just clicked for you, but that Shenmue on the whole is not your cup of tea.
I'm open to that. I'm here to articulate why I think a lot of people are Shenmue haters as I appear to be one of the few on this forum who consider S1 to suffer from enough flaws to call it a bad game. Though it is greatly enriched after playing S2.
Shenmue is an adventure game in real time at its core, but having an option to skip time means all those NPCs schedules, day/night cycles and weather patterns became just an aesthetic feature instead of a mechanical one, rendering the clock feature pointless.
I posted about Shenmue's weird relationship to time in another thread, but I agree with this sentiment depending on the design, I just don't think S1 made a great case for it being necessary.
So far it's on par with S2 for me. I think I even like S3 better, but I'm still in Bailu and some of the spoiler comments indicate it gets worse after that which would be a shame.
I won't spoil anything, though I vastly prefer Bailu.
