Where U think the source of Haters originated from???

Look, if none of you are prepared to meet up and actually fight each other, can't we just lock this thing?

"Why do people hate Shenmue 3?"
"Coz they're jealous!"
"Not everyone hates it."
"I disliked it."
"Then you're not a true fan."
"I've been a true fan for years, and many of them don't like it."
"Well many more do like it."
"But barely anyone's bought it to like it."
"Coz they got it from Kickstarter."
"And the only people who bought it already got it off Kickstarter!"

If I could be arsed typing about six more lines I would've brought this thread to its natural conclusion, but you lot just keep lingering round the middle and it's getting boring.
 
Shenhua-Nani? said:
The hate pre release is absolutely unjustified and deplorable, but marking the harsh comments post release as gratuitous hate is a big mistake.

The truth is it really isn’t a good game, both for the fans that cared about the story and non fans, and it didn’t do anything to gain some simpathy.

That’s of course just the general sentiment, if someone loved it then good for them.
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Yes it is a good game and no, that's not the truth.
 
高野和泉 said:
I'd easily understand if it was a fundamentally broken game series with really bad game design, but it's not.
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I think you'll find this is exactly what people will argue is wrong with Shenmue, particularly S1 and 3. I love Shenmue 2, it's one of my favorite games ever, but I would absolutely consider S1 and 3 fundamentally bad games, 3 in particular.

高野和泉 said:
Pioneering trend setting works with as much artistic integrity as Shenmue are usually or always enshrine in the upper echelon of gaming history along other revolutionary classics Like Zelda/Mario/Metroidvanias/Sonic/VF/Etc.
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While I agree that it's very weird for journalists to heap onto an "auteur" project like Shenmue (these are the people who give David Cage games near perfect scores after all), it's definitely way too far outside mainstream tastes to be compared to Zelda/Mario etc. much less enjoy that level of success. S2 is much closer to what a game that cost $40+M should play like to appeal to the mainstream and even that is saddled with a lot of, let's call it "deliberate", pacing. Shenmue 1 is a slow, boring game that basically requires you to invest yourself in its world and wait IRL to advance the game clock. The fact that this video exists (and has more views than most Shenmue related media) is proof of that:


Granted, these guys are being assholes for the purposes of entertainment, but Shenmue is very easy game to laugh at; there's definitely a reason that people compare it to The Room.

I also can't stress this enough: when most people think of Shenmue, they do not think of a martial arts epic; they think of the first game as a weird Japanese life simulator that cost $70M, and now the third game, where running too much kills you and you need to buy a $2000 bottle of wine in rural China in the 1980s and was the most successful Kickstarter ever.
 
Truck_1_0_1_ said:
Yes it is a good game and no, that's not the truth.
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Just compare the metacritic scores for Shenmue 3: https://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/shenmue-iii/critic-reviews

and Mass Effect Andromeda: https://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/mass-effect-andromeda/critic-reviews

Whether or not you agree isn't really the point, "most people" would consider S3 a bad game the same way that "most people" consider Mass Effect Andromeda a bad game.

Also I just noticed you live in Barrie, cool! I used to live in Vaughan.
 
iknifaugood said:
Just compare the metacritic scores for Shenmue 3: https://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/shenmue-iii/critic-reviews

and Mass Effect Andromeda: https://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/mass-effect-andromeda/critic-reviews

Whether or not you agree isn't really the point, "most people" would consider S3 a bad game the same way that "most people" consider Mass Effect Andromeda a bad game..
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Just no, and the funny thing is that you provide the data yourself: have a look at the USER reviews for the two games:)
 
mjqjazzbar said:
calling Shenmue 1 a bad game... *sighs*

I don’t care what some jerks who get paid to laugh at things and create nothing useful think of Shenmue
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Isn't the point of this thread precisely to understand where that jerk is coming from?

Crimson said:
Just no, and the funny thing is that you provide the data yourself: have a look at the USER reviews for the two games:)
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Metacritic user reviews usually consists of 10/10 or 1/10 and is notoriously subject to manipulation via meta-bombing, so I don't put too much stock in it. S3 is a game that received mostly mediocre reviews from critics, nearly all of which point out that it's only for existing fans of the series, and those fans are split on the quality of the game.
 
You’re right. That video is the type of thing that kind of caused a frenzy about the Kickstarter and how bad Shenmue is, but you were personally just saying Shenmue is a bad game and look how easy it is to make fun of and used that terrible video as proof. Man, Shenmue 2 is easy to make fun of. The Delin sequence is probably dumber than anything in Shenmue 3, and some of you want me to believe Shenmue 3 is a joke.
 
iknifaugood said:
Just compare the metacritic scores for Shenmue 3: https://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/shenmue-iii/critic-reviews

and Mass Effect Andromeda: https://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/mass-effect-andromeda/critic-reviews

Whether or not you agree isn't really the point, "most people" would consider S3 a bad game the same way that "most people" consider Mass Effect Andromeda a bad game.

Also I just noticed you live in Barrie, cool! I used to live in Vaughan.
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Eh, (not the {falsely} Canadian, "Ehhhh," lol), the reviews have been largely positive, not mediocre; isn't the median review score on MC 7.5 or whatever? When looking at a majority/weighting, that's better than the average. Anyways, the game isn't a BAD game; 5/10 and less is a bad game and there are what, a handful under 6?

I lived in Maple for 20 years, then 2 and now I'm in Barrie; Maple is always where my heart is, but a WORSE house than ours, is literally more than double the cost, so we had to go north.

Where in Vaughan? :)

EDIT* Trying to narrow down if I know you personally lol, but I'd figure if you did, you'd know who I am simply by my avatar and handle ;)
 
mjqjazzbar said:
That video is the type of thing that kind of caused a frenzy about the Kickstarter and how bad Shenmue is, but you were personally just saying Shenmue is a bad game and look how easy it is to make fun of and used that terrible video as proof.
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That video is valid because, as I mentioned, it has much higher views than most Shenmue related videos, especially prior to S3. It's not proof that the game is bad per se, but it definitely provides plenty of material to make fun of. Just off the top of my head:
1. The poor English voice acting and stilted, robotic delivery
2. Waiting IRL to advance the game clock
3. Following leads that are obviously going nowhere until Ine San hands you the letter (even Yahtzee points this out in his review)
4. The almost complete lack of fighting for the first 2 acts of a game about martial arts, suddenly shifting gears and going full on action mode where Ryo (a high school kid) single handedly defeats a gang of 70 thugs.
5. Ryo's almost complete disconnect from the people and places he has ostensibly known his entire life
6. Every meme-able moment that has been used to make fun of the game for 20 years (Chai being grotesquely out of place, looking for sailors, the forklift etc.)

mjqjazzbar said:
Man, Shenmue 2 is easy to make fun of. The Delin sequence is probably dumber than anything in Shenmue 3
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I would say that Ryo losing stamina to the point of near death simply by existing (and then replenishing it by eating 10 heads of garlic) is dumber than anything in any Shenmue game. Shenmue 2 also has a dozen other moments that are better than anything S3 even attempts.

Truck_1_0_1_ said:
I lived in Maple for 20 years, then 2 and now I'm in Barrie; Maple is always where my heart is, but a WORSE house than ours, is literally more than double the cost, so we had to go north.

Where in Vaughan? :)
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Maple! I don't recognize the avatar though.
 
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He doesn't lose health to the point of near death. He runs out of stamina. The game doesn't have random battles, so the connection between health/stamina is terribly overblown. Train Ryo and level up his stamina and the whole issue with stamina pretty much disappears. Work and figure out the best way to make money, and you'll have no shortage of sustenance to keep Ryo from running out of stamina if and when he does. Yu Suzuki wanted to make every aspect of the game matter, so he connected health/stamina to training, working and participating in the game's economy. I think there are issues with its implementation, but some of you seem to be completely missing the point of it...

I'm not going to respond to the Shenmue 1 criticism. The game is nearly 20 years old and was a pioneer in so many ways that I feel picking on the things that are wrong with it, which most of us are aware of, is an exercise in pointlessness. Sure, it's easy to make fun of Atari 2600 games as well. Let's make a video about how dumb the first Final Fantasy is while we're at it. And even if Shenmue 1's gameplay is weak in 2019 and the story/translation are easy to laugh at, it's still a masterclass in atmosphere, music and aesthetics. I don't need three dickheads who made that video so they could reprimand people for backing Shenmue 3 on Kickstarter to tell me what's wrong with one of the most important video games of all time.
 
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What is it with all the people in this thread talking shit about Shenmue I?

Is this what the Dojo has come to? Having to defend Shenmue I from people who don't think it's a good game?!?!

I'm really starting to believe that Shenmue III has brought a bunch of trolls here who are masquerading as fans. Funny how the ones who don't like Shenmue I all seem to have joined within the last two months.
 

  • mjqjazzbar said:
    He doesn't lose health to the point of near death. He runs out of stamina. The game doesn't have random battles, so the connection between health/stamina is terribly overblown. Train Ryo and level up his stamina and the whole issue with stamina pretty much disappears. Work and figure out the best way to make money, and you'll have no shortage of sustenance to keep Ryo from running out of stamina if and when he does. Yu Suzuki wanted to make every aspect of the game matter, so he connected health/stamina to training, working and participating in the game's economy. I think there are issues with its implementation, but some of you seem to be completely missing the point of it...
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    What you don't understand is that just because you can think up some reason as to why something exists doesn't make it good or enjoyable.
 
What you don't understand is that I'm explaining why I don't think it's dumb, and I think I've come up with valid reasons why I don't think it's dumb. You're welcome to continue thinking it's dumb and continuing to not enjoy it, SCQ. So is iknifaugood. Hope that helps, bud.
 
It is pretty dumb in the sense that it seriously takes away from the overall experience for the majority of people who played the game. I assume that is what he means by "dumb" other than of course it isn't realistic but that isn't really the most important thing in a video game.
 
mjqjazzbar said:
He doesn't lose health to the point of near death. He runs out of stamina.
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Which shares the same resource as health.

mjqjazzbar said:
The game doesn't have random battles, so the connection between health/stamina is terribly overblown.
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No it's not. If you run around too much, you will lose health, if you then get in a fight, you will die because your health will be too low (you have no control over when the story fights happen). This is a roundabout way of saying Ryo kills himself by running (AKA playing the game). It's a decision so mind boggling in a game about exploration and fighting that I have no idea how it got past the whiteboard, never mind actually implemented, which is why pretty much no other games do this.

mjqjazzbar said:
Train Ryo and level up his stamina and the whole issue with the stamina pretty much disappears.
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OR the whole system could have been omitted and the game would be better for it, just like the original games, and as a bonus, the player wouldn't have to waste countless hours on dull micro-games.

mjqjazzbar said:
Yu Suzuki wanted to make every aspect of the game matter, so he connected health/stamina to training, working and participating in the game's economy. I think there are issues with its implementation, but some of you seem to be completely missing the point of it...
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No I think I gathered the point of it. It's because without it (and grinding for money), the game's dearth of content is more readily apparent and the game would be a fraction of the length.

mjqjazzbar said:
I'm not going to respond to the Shenmue 1 criticism. The game is nearly 20 years old and was a pioneer in so many ways that I feel picking on the things that are wrong with it
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I played it when it came out and everything that's wrong with it now was wrong with it then. Most of what's wrong with S1 is a result of it being split off from S2 (they were originally 1 game) and it obviously had its length padded out. And, again, isn't this thread about understanding Shenmue's criticism? S1 is by far the most well-known game in the series.

Dietsoap said:
kind of the point innit
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I guess? Just because they intended for him to be out of place doesn't make it a good idea and the parallels to Gollum certainly don't help (out of their control, I know). I'll still take Chai over unnamed muscle man any day though.
 
iknaufugood, yes, the point is to understand the haters. My point was that Shenmue II is full of many stupid things that are easy to pick on a well, but your personal opinion is that Shenmue 2 is a great game so you don't seem as eager to pick on the things others might find stupid. They're the same things most people find stupid about 1 + 3. These games are all fundamentally similar to each other.

(Shenmue II is my favorite game of all time)
 
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